Windmills!

[Motherland]

I was recently up in Cambria County, PA on a hunting trip. They've been putting up wind farms in the area (in fact, they even built a windmill blade factory). I've never seen modern windmills up this close before- you can see them from pretty far away on the ridges of mountains and stuff, but you don't really get to appreciate the scale of these things unless you're up close. They're HUGE.

This is a blade on the bed of a truck. You could stand inside of it.



Here are some assembled windmills.



The box at the top is somewhere between the size of a pickup truck and a short bus.








Hmmm... pictures really don't do them justice, it seems.

[eskimo2]

Pretty cool stuff!

[USRanger]

Very cool.

[Chalenge]

Just one small point of detail: these are wind generators or wind turbines. Only if they are used to pump water or grind something are they referred to as windmills.

[oakranger]

we have about 500 of them in Kansas.  I believe by 2010, we will have 1500.  They are a small help on energy but a huge impact on the ecological environment.

[dkff49]

I remember about 11 or 12 years ago I had to do some field work for the factory I used to work for and saw a bunch of these (guess they call it a field) in Iowa. They are indeed an awesome site to see in their finished form but I am sure you probably get a better feel for their size in the pre-assembled form as well. Great pics man

[JB88]

we have about 500 of them in Kansas.  I believe by 2010, we will have 1500.  They are a small help on energy but a huge impact on the ecological environment.

how so?

curious is all.

[Chalenge]

The argument most often cited is that each megawatt of electrical power created requires 6450 barrels of oil and creates 2700 tons of CO2 49 tons of SO2 5.5 tons of NOx and 175 tons of slag and ash for a landfill for a return of enough power for 650 homes. I dont believe that much polution comes about from producing a single megawatt but thats the claim.

These turbines are ugly noisy and create electromagnetic interference as well as kill birds (how many exactly has yet to be determined) and will not produce power reliably (no wind no power).

My argument against rushing to build these 'farms' and large numbers is the same as for any such 'rush to satisfy whims' that men chase after. How many people yell and scream about global warming convinced that man is dooming himself and yet we cant predict weather and we cant control it. Now it comes to this radical rush to create alternative power and we let brainless politicians with no understanding of weather economy ecology or the impact on constructing these giant farms all over the country upon our world. They are going to create a bigger mess then they had before; government always does this without proper consideration.

[rpm]

I'm curious, how many birds are in Holland? Been windmills there for centuries.

I see those go by my house almost daily. They are building a huge windfarm about 30 miles from here. The boxes are the generator. It measures 15 ft tall, 10 feet wide and 30 feet long. The blades are 90 feet long.

[Holden McGroin]

I work for Iberdrola. 39 percent of our overall output being produced by renewable sources, making us the largest wind energy operator in the world. (I am at a Natural Gas turbine plant) 

Bird strikes are a problem with lattice towers


Because birds perch on the lattice work and then fly off into the rotor.  Most of these turbines are in the 250 kw range.

New turbines are 1.5 Mw and up, 80 meters to the hub and more, do not have lattice towers.
 

The rotor rpm on these big rotors are much slower than the smaller turbines, and bird strikes are very rare.  We have a Audubon society crew that goes thru our farms, and last time I talked to one (in bay area CA) they hadn't found any harmed birds in several months.

As for electromagnetic interference, the field strength you get living on a farm around these towers is less than what you get from your TV set.

When the wind does not blow, that is when we have the natural gas turbines and (in the NW) Bonneville Dam.  When the wind does blow, we can fill the grid with carbon free power that does not cut up salmon.

[crockett]

The argument most often cited is that each megawatt of electrical power created requires 6450 barrels of oil and creates 2700 tons of CO2 49 tons of SO2 5.5 tons of NOx and 175 tons of slag and ash for a landfill for a return of enough power for 650 homes. I dont believe that much polution comes about from producing a single megawatt but thats the claim.

These turbines are ugly noisy and create electromagnetic interference as well as kill birds (how many exactly has yet to be determined) and will not produce power reliably (no wind no power).

My argument against rushing to build these 'farms' and large numbers is the same as for any such 'rush to satisfy whims' that men chase after. How many people yell and scream about global warming convinced that man is dooming himself and yet we cant predict weather and we cant control it. Now it comes to this radical rush to create alternative power and we let brainless politicians with no understanding of weather economy ecology or the impact on constructing these giant farms all over the country upon our world. They are going to create a bigger mess then they had before; government always does this without proper consideration.

Ummm Global warming is just a single issue.. Another issue is making us self sufficient for our energy needs. Are you saying making us self sufficient is just a need to satisfy a whim? Not to mention it's renewable and creates jobs here in the US vs oil jobs in other countries.

[Holden McGroin]

The argument most often cited is that each megawatt of electrical power created requires 6450 barrels of oil and creates 2700 tons of CO2 49 tons of SO2 5.5 tons of NOx and 175 tons of slag and ash for a landfill for a return of enough power for 650 homes. I dont believe that much polution comes about from producing a single megawatt but thats the claim.

5.6 million BTU/barrel of oil.

25  million BTU/ton of coal

At our natural gas cogeneration plant, we produce 1 kW-hr for about 7000 btu. (that's referred to as heat rate)

In a year, 61,362,000 btu/kw-yr thats equiv to about 11,000 barrels of oil / Mw-yr

At a coal plant, a good heat rate would be 12 to 15,000 btu / kwhr

In a year, 13,500 * 24* 365.25 =  118,341,000 btu/kw-yr thats 4730 tons of coal / MW yr

The amount of fuel burned in a 1.5 Mw wind turbine = 0

[Chalenge]

Ummm Global warming is just a single issue.. Another issue is making us self sufficient for our energy needs. Are you saying making us self sufficient is just a need to satisfy a whim? Not to mention it's renewable and creates jobs here in the US vs oil jobs in other countries.

Im all for being self sufficient as a nation. That will never happen. Maybe we can get off of the Arab oil addiction but there will always be another addiction come along. What I am saying is these turbines are making someone a lot of money and you should always follow the money. I think this trend is all about money and not about ecology at all. Our economy needs the expansion but I am not at all sure this is a good energy solution.

[Curlew]

They have even large ones, Ive seen them on cargo ships coming into LA harbor, dont know how they plan to move them, heli lift maybe

[rpm]

I am not at all sure this is a good energy solution.

Yeah, because being held hostage by OPEC is the way to go.