WWI flight sims

[PanosGR]

Im not an expert in Flight sims  but after 3,5 years in AH I have tried IL2, offline and I realized that the task to fly a plane, and I mean WWII era plane, is indeed a very difficult one. I mean just to up a plane in AH and to fly it is way too easy. Im not sure if that was the case in RL. Otherwise everybody could have been a pilot, with no sweat, like we all do here in AH. In AH I can input very violent press in my stick and still the aircraft doesn’t suffer any serious lack of control or loose its stability, and if I loose control the aircraft comes to rest very easily and very stable, giving the feeling that the nose is running on rail tracks. I tried to pull some aerobatics in IL2 things that I do in AH at low alt and the outcome was to crash.  Maybe the “numbers” –as it concern the performances of the aircrafts- are by the book in AH but I think the flight model is deliberately on an easy mode for not to discourage new players coming in AH and leave the game afterwards.

[Saxman]

I disagree with you there. For the most part the F4U handled in Il-2 much the way she does in AH. Almost everything I could do in AH I could do in Il-2. The main differences are:

* RIDICULOUS engine overheat: The Corsair's engine in Il-2 overheats after only a few minutes of operation at full power even with cooling flaps completely open. This was a flaw in the modeling Ubisoft never addressed despite constant bombardment on the boards about it.

* Generic Flaps: All aircraft in Il-2 had the same flap positions: Up, "maneuvering," "take off" and "landing." This lead to a degree of genericness, and IMO was detrimental to the Hog's handling (not enough flap positions, especially not having the two "maneuvering" positions the real F4U possessed). As a result, she didn't feel much different than any other plane in the game

* Engine torque much more noticeable: The biggest difference is that engine torque is actually a factor. At stall speeds she STRONGLY resists rolling to the right. In landing configuration and reduced power throttling up too suddenly will cause her to flip over uncontrollably (which is correct). It ALSO supports a fact pointed out in previous discussions on the F4U's handling in AH: It's not that her combat handling and maneuverability is overdone, it's that low-speed stability in takeoff and landing configuration is weak.

* Can't put her into a snap-roll. I try and end up in a flat-spin.

There's some other minor details as well: There doesn't seem to be an option to switch between fuel tanks, the previously mentioned differences in engine management, (Corsair you have to manually shift the supercharger gear) turbulence/shake caused by lowering your landing gear to the dive brake position. And the gauges are IMPOSSIBLE to read.

[BnZs]

Otherwise everybody could have been a pilot, with no sweat, like we all do here in AH. In AH I can input very violent press in my stick and still the aircraft doesn’t suffer any serious lack of control or loose its stability, and if I loose control the aircraft comes to rest very easily and very stable, giving the feeling that the nose is running on rail tracks. I tried to pull some aerobatics in IL2 things that I do in AH at low alt and the outcome was to crash.  Maybe the “numbers” –as it concern the performances of the aircrafts- are by the book in AH but I think the flight model is deliberately on an easy mode for not to discourage new players coming in AH and leave the game afterwards.

Once again, I think people are VASTLY overestimating the handling difficulties these airplanes should have. Face it, most WWII pilots had FAR fewer hours than most of us have in sims. If the airplanes were all widowmakers, no one would have made it.

Real pilots had to deal with lots of things besides airplane handling and ACM, most of all they had to deal with real consequences. That is the difference.

You can certainly stall/spin a plane in AHII if you push it too far. I think the difference must be the warning. The warning of oncoming stall in Il2 is quieter and subtler than AHII's horn blaring in your ear, so maybe you push it too far easier.

Your "nose on rails" remark...I keep hearing that. First of all, its not true. Adverse yaw is obviously in play in AHII, for instance. (Fly a Ta-152 if you don't believe me.) Second, from my own experience both with sims and planes, Il2 is the "odd man out" with its constant nose bounce. Remember, like I said, they didn't have as many hours as most of us do in this sim. The most commonly cited reasons I've read in actual accounts for misses were being out of range and not putting in enough deflection. What we'd call "noob mistakes". Not, "I couldn't make the plane steady up for anything." The shooting in AHII isn't too "easy mode", the thing is, too many players are really, really good shots.

[Saxman]

BnZ,

I will say that the gunnery may be a bit easier in AH than it should be. AFAIK even in scenario/etc play where wind is in effect gunnery isn't impacted by windage (this could be easily tested and confirmed using the target and setting a crosswind while offline). It's not just a matter of nose bounce, but a simplified gunnery model. Additionally, the player is unaffected by environmental factors a real pilot would have to contend with that would negatively impact his aim (adrenaline/fear, G forces, etc).

[Anaxogoras]

IIRC, real tracer rounds had a different flight path than the rest of the bullet stream, too.

[BnZs]

Sax:

Haven't found the gunnery super-easy myself. And I'm not talking about artful dodgers, I'm talking dead six shots on planes that aren't maneuvering much. With high closure rates even that can be a little difficult.


When I test on .target, the bullets don't make a small group, they seem to have random dispersion increasing with distance. Are you saying not enough?

 If windage effects aren't there, that is something, but I shoot within 300 yards myself, I don't see most cross-winds effecting a hail of .50s at that range enough to make you miss very often.

Yeah, we don't have fear, or pain, etc. We're also not freezing and we're not really loosing blood when we are trying to land with a PW, whats your point?  I don't think gunnery or flying should be made harder just because its easier to shoot or execute dangerous maneuvers  when death isn't on the line...I have reason to suspect this line of reasoning is EXACTLY what led to Il2's gunnery/flight modeling.

BTW, Hub Zemke mentioned in his book having a bit of "buck fever" when attacking his first airplane in real combat. He shot, the target split-S'd, he landed a few hits when it did and then it was diving and gone. They reviewed the gun camera footage, he had opened fire at ~1000 yards! Sounds like 1. he was missing for the same reason new guys miss in AHII 2. The weapon platform itself was capable of some real accuracy.

[sluggish]

I remember when that stupid WWI air war film came out a few years ago (so forgetable I can't even remember the name) they had a free on-line WWI flight sim I think based on AW?  It was totally gamey and silly...