110C>109E?

[Anaxogoras]

I was in the AvA tonight, and a Spitfire pilot was scared to engage my lower 110C.  When I asked why, he went on and on about how the 110C is a more dangerous adversary than a 109E, and also claimed that in the last BoB scenario the 109E had a K/D of ~1:1 vs 3:1 for the 110C.  Thoughts?  We know the 109E should be the more competent air-air fighter, but is it so in AH?

[Delirium]

If flown like a strict BnZ aircraft, the 110C greatly out classes anything the RAF has for the BoB. The only reason the 110C did so well iin previous BoB scenario is that groups flying them flew like P40s in Rangoon; keep it fast and keep a few thousand feet beneath you in case you get jumped. I was in one of those groups in the last BoB and I'm in another this BoB...

If he was higher than you were, he had little to worry unless he set himself up to get HO'd.

[leitwolf]

He's right that in previous BoB runs, the 110 had the best K/D of all planes and, ironically, the Spitfire I the worst. In multi-plane engagements with dedicated BnZ'ers in the 110s, they will win. In a 1:1 dogfight (and lots of time to wrestle it down to the deck), the Spitfire is so much better than a 110, there's no contest.
I find this fascinating, it makes you wonder what the tactics at the time were for the 110 that they found it to be hopelessly outclassed (or if AH has indeed some aspect of the 110 wrong, E retention in dive/zooms perhaps).

[Die Hard]

I think people make the mistake of thinking the real pilots flew like we do in the game ... they didn't. And the 110 wasn't a complete failure. It did quite well against the Hurricane and several 110 pilots made ace on the type during the Battle of Britain. Early in the battle the 110 was also faster than the Spitfire I.

A well flown 109E is better than the 110C, but in scenarios I suspect the 110 is favoured by more experienced pilots due to the much better range and more ammo.

[Delirium]

I think the reason the Spits have a K/D ratio worse than the Hurricane in BoB scenarios is because of the bullet dispersion. The guns are staggered across the wing in the Spit and not close together like in the Hurricane.

Another factor is that there hasn't been ANY altitude restrictions making the Hurri and 110 a little more stable up there than the Spitfire.

[Karnak]

We also have a rare, up engined Bf110C-4 compared to the one used in the BoB.  A Spitfire Mk II would be a better oponent for it.

Hurricane is overmodeled.

[Anaxogoras]

We also have a rare, up engined Bf110C-4 compared to the one used in the BoB.  A Spitfire Mk II would be a better oponent for it.

Hurricane is overmodeled.

I think the correct designation is 110C-4/B if you want to point out the upgraded engines.  That's another good example of HTC giving us an aircraft that is better for the arena than scenarios.

Btw, historically, one of the 110's problems was that it was easy to spot!  In our game, size doesn't really matter because of the neon icons that announce your presence.

[B3YT]

hurricane is not over modelled. It was a great turner , had a good rate of roll (many ex-hurri pilots sated that the spit was mushy at speed compared to it) and a very very stable gun platform.

[Masherbrum]

Spit 1 is a great plane.   However, most 110 sticks in this game HO the first chance they get.   The only name that comes to mind that most often DOESN'T, would be 4510.   He can turn it with ease.   

More often than not, "lopsided plane choices" influence the "outcome of the scenarios".    Most take the "safety net" route and this is true. 

I'm 11-0 in HO'ing 110G's whilst in a Spit 1, in the MA's.   They all fired first and were sent to the tower in one pass.   Just because you have cannon, does not mean you have "accuracy".

I'd personally choose the Emil over the 110C.   Not only is the Emil a better turner, it is a more stable platform.   The Emil and 109F4 for that matter are my favorite 109's to fly.   They require more than just "fire the tater", they require "lag pursuit" tactics, of which I immerse myself in.   I'm often not "playing with my food", but I'm merely "savoring the fight".    Most cannot effectively utilize "lag pursuit", but it is one of my strengths.   Not to mention, I've floored folks in a furball, letting them know "where a certain Con is going break".   You see, with the Emil you cannot simply "fire off rounds from 600+", the plane forces you to get "up close".   If you're firing from 500 and on out, yer wasting ammo.   

I'll probably be branded "a showoff" for the last few sentences, but so be it.    Those who know me and have actually take the time to do so, know I am not.   

[Spikes]

I'd choose the 109F over any 109/110, simply because of the single line of fire and slow fire rate, amazing turn rate, etc. I couldn't get the feel for the 110C when I took it up a few times. It seemed to take forever to get kills with the cannons, and that was all I was hitting them with too.

[Delirium]

I'd personally choose the Emil over the 110C.   Not only is the Emil a better turner, it is a more stable platform.   

I disagree... while the Emil may be a little friendlier at low speed, the 110C is by far deadlier, if flown properly.

[Karnak]

hurricane is not over modelled. It was a great turner , had a good rate of roll (many ex-hurri pilots sated that the spit was mushy at speed compared to it) and a very very stable gun platform.

According to what I have read the Hurri rolls 50% too fast in AH.

It should turn well and be a good gun platform though.  Also, either the Hurri is too duable or the Spit too fragile.  They weren't that far apart whereas in AH a Spit just falls apart under light fire.

[Steve]

I'd personally choose the Emil over the 110C.   Not only is the Emil a better turner, it is a more stable platform.   The Emil and 109F4 for that matter are my favorite 109's to fly.   They require more than just "fire the tater", they require "lag pursuit" tactics, of which I immerse myself in.   I'm often not "playing with my food", but I'm merely "savoring the fight".    Most cannot effectively utilize "lag pursuit", but it is one of my strengths.   Not to mention, I've floored folks in a furball, letting them know "where a certain Con is going break".   You see, with the Emil you cannot simply "fire off rounds from 600+", the plane forces you to get "up close".   If you're firing from 500 and on out, yer wasting ammo.   

I'll probably be branded "a showoff" for the last few sentences, but so be it.    Those who know me and have actually take the time to do so, know I am not.   

Showoff!

 

[Charge]

"Also, either the Hurri is too duable or the Spit too fragile."

Well it depends what you shoot it with. Against "ball" ammo Hurri is worse because the skinning of the rear section does not resist of deflect bullets making it easier for such ammo reach armour plate without tumbling. However against HE it is better because the canvas skinning does not hold pressure making it hard to cause HE damage against its structures.

-C+

[SgtPappy]

According to what I have read the Hurri rolls 50% too fast in AH.

It should turn well and be a good gun platform though.  Also, either the Hurri is too duable or the Spit too fragile.  They weren't that far apart whereas in AH a Spit just falls apart under light fire.

In addition, all AFDU trials state that the Spitfire I's turn rate is by far better than the Hurricane's, whose turn rate is almost the same as the Emil's. In our game, I'm choosing the Hurricane I over the Spitfire Ia any day.