Author Topic: This is not a pick  (Read 2831 times)

Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22287
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: This is not a pick
« Reply #60 on: November 04, 2008, 08:47:57 PM »
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline Messiah

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 927
      • http://www.theblueknights.com
Re: This is not a pick
« Reply #61 on: November 04, 2008, 11:34:59 PM »
LOL PNG'd
Messiah(The O.G.)
The Blue Knights

Offline Chalenge

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15179
Re: This is not a pick
« Reply #62 on: November 05, 2008, 03:03:00 AM »
Nothing wrong with coming up from below but for me personally I find up from below to cause more collisions, is a harder shot, and it takes longer to set up which gives comrades more time to warn the victim.

Which is why I go for the guy in the rear of the line first and then his buds out front next.

Ya, if I'm coming down on you...  

A phrase that always makes me quite nervous in any connotation...  :D

If you like the Sick Puppy Custom Sound Pack the please consider contributing for future updates by sending a months dues to Hitech Creations for account "Chalenge." Every little bit helps.

Offline SD67

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3218
Re: This is not a pick
« Reply #63 on: November 05, 2008, 03:27:58 AM »
When I do the BnZ thing I have no intention of slowing down as I come up from below. I like to come up just behind the tail section firing as I go. Usually I miss badly, sometimes they go boom. :D
9GIAP VVS RKKA
You're under arrest for violation of the Government knows best act!
Fabricati diem, punc
Absinthe makes the Tart grow fonder

Offline mechanic

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11327
Re: This is not a pick
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2008, 05:04:15 AM »

I couldn't even get off the ground by myself. If I was the only Knit player in the game, when I logged on there would be like 200 bish hanging over the last uncaptured knit field, with it de-acked, waiting to vulch me.

 :lol :aok
sounds about right for alot of players i know here, wouldnt we be in an IL2 at that point trying to HO anything that moved?
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline Getback

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6456
Re: This is not a pick
« Reply #65 on: November 06, 2008, 05:46:31 AM »
Well actually that is a pick Steve. When someone is engaged with another con and you shoot them down that's a fight vulch. Hardly ever hear the term any more. Use to be people called you fight vulchers regularly. Frankly picking some one is probably how most kills happen. I do it and certainly am not ashamed to do it. I fight vulch too. When you get down to it, in the words of Anvil,"There's no honorable way to get a kill. You just shoot them and move on".

  Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

Offline Zazen13

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3600
Re: This is not a pick
« Reply #66 on: November 06, 2008, 09:34:53 AM »
In complex engagements, be it the real world or this virtual one, the name of the game is to put oneself and your wingman-(men) in a position to dispatch the enemy as quickly and efficiently as possible while preventing the enemy from doing the same to you and your comrades. Cooperative tactics, mutual support and the opportunistic application of active tactical SA are vital to achieving this. The term "cherry picking" or killing an otherwise engaged bandit, is really, with two notable exceptions described below, simply the successful application of the core principles of air combat tactics. The two exceptions are:

1) When there is an isolated engagement between a single friend and foe where it is confirmed via direct communication or obvious intention that your friendly wishes to be left alone with the bandit.

2) When there are already sufficient friendlies engaged with the bandit(s) to dispatch him/them and they are in a viable position to do so. By, viable I mean, the friendlies have the E to force the engagement. Sometimes it's valid to be the "5th man in" if you are the only one with the E to force the bandit to turn thereby allowing his pursuers to successfully engage him if you fail to destroy him.


In all other situations you can conceive of cherry picking is really just one core aspect of good fightering tactics and their execution thereby furthering the overarching goal of dispatching the enemy as quickly and efficiently as possible. Anyone who whines about cherry picking in any situation other than the two aformentioned scenarios is clueless, in my personal opinion, demonstrating they deserved the express trip to the tower that they got.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 09:53:02 AM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: This is not a pick
« Reply #67 on: November 06, 2008, 10:02:54 AM »
MA is more or less a team sport.

Maybe not a very well organized team sport. Maybe a sport with teams that don't have the best tactics. Teams that sometimes seem to have the collective intelligence of a plastic dish drainer...teams you'd like to box up and mail to an undisclosed location in the Altai mountains...

But still a team sport.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22287
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: This is not a pick
« Reply #68 on: November 06, 2008, 10:05:35 AM »
Well actually that is a pick Steve. When someone is engaged with another con and you shoot them down that's a fight vulch. Hardly ever hear the term any more. Use to be people called you fight vulchers regularly. Frankly picking some one is probably how most kills happen. I do it and certainly am not ashamed to do it. I fight vulch too. When you get down to it, in the words of Anvil,"There's no honorable way to get a kill. You just shoot them and move on".

i thought a pick was when you bounced an already engaged enemy? i don't see them fighting there.....i hafta agree with steve...it was a bounce.
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline Getback

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6456
Re: This is not a pick
« Reply #69 on: November 06, 2008, 04:42:56 PM »
i thought a pick was when you bounced an already engaged enemy? i don't see them fighting there.....i hafta agree with steve...it was a bounce.

A bounce in my humble opinion is a pick followed by a gain in altitude. Now I know that is being a bit, forgive the pun, picky but that is just how I see it. Again nothing wrong with a pick.

  Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

Offline Zazen13

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3600
Re: This is not a pick
« Reply #70 on: November 06, 2008, 06:39:13 PM »
A bounce is any attack from a distinct altitude advantage.
A pick is any attack from any position on a bandit who is already engaged.

So, an attack could be both a bounce and a pick, or just a bounce or just a pick. But, all bounces are not picks and all picks are not bounces...

Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline Anaxogoras

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7072
Re: This is not a pick
« Reply #71 on: November 06, 2008, 09:11:58 PM »
Anyone who whines about cherry picking in any situation other than the two aformentioned scenarios is clueless, in my personal opinion, demonstrating they deserved the express trip to the tower that they got.

Well said.  There is not a single player in the game who doesn't cherry pick, but half of them whine about it.
gavagai
334th FS


RPS for Aces High!

Offline Zazen13

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3600
Re: This is not a pick
« Reply #72 on: November 07, 2008, 01:27:44 AM »
Well said.  There is not a single player in the game who doesn't cherry pick, but half of them whine about it.

I would even go so far as to say that the theoretical person that never cherrypicks or attempts to setup bandits to be cherrypicked by their wingmen is completely useless in a complex engagement.

Here's a few examples of of hundreds that prove Cherrypicking is integral to aircombat, ask yourself what kind of moron would not do these things in a complex fight.

1) Friendly Jug calls for help, he's in tight with a Spit16 that with the help of an LGay7 ran your friend down trying to RTB, you come in, chop throttle and blow the Spit to kingdom come.

2) You're' flying along looking for a fight when you see two friends trailing 2 bandits, apparently not closing. You have E, so inform them you will be turning the bandits. Well, they see you coming at 2k out and rev to ho your friends. You chop throttle immel down and blow one away.

3) You notice 2 high bandits engaged with 3 friendlies below them. You come along with some E on the bandits. Apparently so fixated on the fresh meat on the table your approach is not noticed. One bandit makes a pass at a friend and zoom climbs up toward your level exposing his belly to your flight path. One short burst later he's in tower lamenting his poor SA.
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline Kazaa

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8371
      • http://www.thefewsquadron.co.uk
Re: This is not a pick
« Reply #73 on: November 07, 2008, 02:36:30 AM »
No matter how I get shot down, I always punch the wall and blame myself.  :aok



"If you learn from defeat, you haven't really lost."

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18235
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: This is not a pick
« Reply #74 on: November 07, 2008, 08:53:23 AM »
No matter how I get shot down, I always punch the wall and blame myself.  :aok


....so it is a good thing that you are stuck in that padded room  :D