AH Damage System

[Naudet]

This weekend i am getting really upset with AHs dmg system.

Not that it takes pings and pings and pings for my GE guns to take anything down, but at all the only dmg i get is eng, radiator or oil (i fly D9).
And the best with this dmg is, i get it 90% of the time when i get a single ping that is comin from behind!!!
The bullet has this way either to penetrate both fuel tanks or the pilot, the cockpit panel and the ammunition of all weapons.
This is impossible!!!
It is a know fact that the fuel tanks delivered a pretty good protection for the eng from behind, and if my pilot would have been hit, i would NOT die from engine failure!

The D9 is really the most vulnerable plane atm flying around in AH sky. 1 ping from all distances up to 750 feet will surely criple the engine or raditor. This weekend i pretty much had only full power egg dmg, which means 1 ping took out the eng, the radiator and the oil!!!

And on the other hand we have the funny toy guns called GE weaponary. All the GE weapons lose effectiveness beyond 400 yards as if jesus tells em "Dont hurt anyone, u a good bullet, u a sweety, u wont hurt anyone. OK?" And the bullet answers "Yes sure lord i will do what u say"

A 20mm shell doesnt lose as much punch outside 400yrds as a full metal jacket round of a 13mm, cause its main destruction power comes from explosives inside.

Plz do something about that, i dont want to lose just cause the guys behind gets a lucky long range eng kill and so takes the main weapon my D9 has, speed.

[This message has been edited by Naudet (edited 05-28-2001).]

[Tac]

Heh, you think so? Fly the P-38 for a while. It cant take a snapshot from a .303 without losing a part or its entire tail boom or a wing.

however, the new planes , ki61, p47d11 and some of the previous version new planes, la7, yak9t and tempest seem to eat a LOT of lead in comparison with other planes.

Ive flown the d9 a little bit, had the engine shot out easily too, but thats just like 10 sorties worth of experience, so I cant say about that plane.

[DmdNexus]

I am sure I might be mistaken here, so all you technical spec fanatics please correct me... but I thought the fuselage of the d9 was mostly "the engine", weren't they nicked named the "long nose" because of that fact, and wasn't there no armor plating in the cockpit for the pilots?

This is in contrast to the American planes which had armor plating on the back, bottom, sides, flight jacket, and pilot's underwear. <j/k>

Nexus

[Naudet]

It was called the long-nose, cause the inline engine was a couple of feets longer than the radial in the A-Series, so compared to the A the D had a long nose.

And all GE plane had armored pilot seats, bullet proofed windscreens, Back cockpit amror, pilots head amor, selfsealing fuels tanks etc. The FW190 had actually an armed cooling ring too. Special ground attacks versions had this armor widely increased.

The D9 was no little japanese paper plane. It was a bird that could take some punichment before going down.

Tac, i can say that the P38 falls apart to a .303 cal snap shot, cause i dont fly it. But from the few times i encountered one, i can say that they can be hurt, and they they show dmg much faster than a spit, LA7 or the newest flying tank the KI61.

[MANDOBLE]

My experience with any 190/109 model is not "very" good, ping in fuselage = engine out.

In the opposite, "breaking" a La7 is like "breaking" a tank, a really hard to destroy plane.

[Nexus]

No kidding with the La7s,

My self and 3 winggies had a heck of time downing a single La7 the other day.

I placed 5 hits on him with my 6 .50 cals and no joy - flashes but no parts.

Wasn't so much he was a good flier, I was on his 6 at 300 yards most of the fight in my F4U-D.

Eventually we got him, but sometimes I feel like I'm shooting piss.

very frustrating.

Nexus

[DB603]

S!

 It's the LAG will some1 say soon...But this 1 ping crap is annoying.And always the same thing on 190/109-->engine out regardless angle/range.Ki61 ain't a flying tank IMO.Tail is very fragile on it as in all planes...But man does it turn!
 Maybe most of this stuff is related to net lag and packet loss,but sometimes it really gets on the nerve when U waste(and also hit a lot) the whole ammoload on enemy A/C just to be killed by one lucky ping of his guns...Gotta try to live with it tho.




------------------
DB603
3.Lentue
Lentolaivue 34

[Tuomio]

Ok heres what ive come up with.

It could be the lag, couse the enemy could just dive a little and shoot from slight angle, without you seeing him to do so immediately. Im quite sure, that the AH engine doesent count the bullets angle and it penetrates the nose straight to engine even when shot from almost dead angle.

My guess is, that there isnt anything buggy in the damage model, but it just doesent count the angles. Id hope we would have the ricochet damage model from the GV:s to planes also, since not every MG round penetrates wing from narrow angles even when shot from fairly close distances. The ricocheting bullets would be also awesome sight; no more the over 400yds fatal pings, only bouncing tracers.
That could be the reason also for the hispanos being so effective from distances. 20mm hispano surely does hurt from 600yds when shot to 90 degree angle, but the 10 degrees shot makes only ricochets. So you cant make the hispanos less effective to over 400yds without altering significantly the realism when performing snapshots.

I would like HTC:s comment to this damage model issue and are they experimenting the ricochet with GV:s to transfer that to planes later on?

[Naudet]

I have a little additional question, isnt AH using "what u see is what u get"?? What means if i see pings on the enemy he actually takes dmg even if on his FE he is (to get a real bad example of netlage) 3.0k away on my 6.

My prob no with AH dmg model is that actually i dont get what i see, the worst example happened yesterday. I scored about 10-12 pings on a spit from 300 yrds @60 degree angle (he showed me larges tgt area,  i looked at him from "above") i saw 3 on the engine, 2 at cockpit, 4-5 on the right wing and the rest on the aft fuselage and the tail. What really impressed me was that the tiny spit flew on not even a part falling off.
The 3 engine pings alone should have had a smoke, cooling or oil trail as result, but nothing like this happened. I had such things happen annoyingly often lately, a KI61 hit from 220 yrds with a atleast 8-10 pings on one wing. Result was the guy did a mini warp behind me and took out, guess what, my engine from 600 yrds. I than crashed my D9 in anger into the water.

[Vermillion]

 

I have a little additional question, isnt AH using "what u see is what u get"?? What means if i see pings on the enemy he actually takes dmg even if on his FE he is (to get a real bad example of netlage) 3.0k away on my 6

Yes this is how it works.  Hits and Damage are calculated on your FE.

The only time this would not be the case, is if the target's connection is dropping alot of packets, and his FE never gets the "your dead" message.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[Lephturn]

First, Naudet are you firing all guns, or only cannons on the D9?  If it's all guns, then you likely sprinkled the target with MG's while the cannon rounds missed.  If you are firing for effect with a cannon armed plane, ONLY fire the cannons.  The only time you should fire both at once is if you are so close you can't miss.

Nexus, .50's are great weapons, but they need concentration of fire to work.  You can put 20 hits on a guy, and if you spread them out all over his plane, you may get no noticeable damage.  Now hit with .50's at convergence so that all the hits are on one wing, and it won't take very many to destroy that single part.  This is why you should have all guns converged at the same point at around 250 yards in a .50 armed bird in my opinion.  That way when you hit him at close to convergence, most of your bullets hit in the same place and you will do damage.  Get outside of your convergence range and you can sprinkle pings all over a guy and he won't flinch.  I pinged the snot out of a running Pony the other night at 700+ yards, like 30 hits, and he shrugged it off because it was long range, outside convergence, and the hits were spread all over the plane.

------------------
Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer

A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com

Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH articles and training info!

[Naudet]

Lephturn i fired all weapons, convergence is set to 300 yrds for both weapons and the spit was hit while moving at a distance near 300 yrds, so i assume a 20mm to 13mm ratio of 1 to 2 so from the 10 hits 3-4 20mm and 6-7 13mm.

But even when all hits were only 13mm, 3 direct hits into the eng wouldnt end up wiht no effect at all i guess.

And on that KI61 i am pretty sure that couple of hits were 20mms. I killed P47 or F6Fs with such bursts. But as this guy than warped behind me, it is likely that he never got the "you are dead" package.

[Hristo]

 

Originally posted by Lephturn:

First, Naudet are you firing all guns, or only cannons on the D9?  If it's all guns, then you likely sprinkled the target with MG's while the cannon rounds missed.  If you are firing for effect with a cannon armed plane, ONLY fire the cannons.  The only time you should fire both at once is if you are so close you can't miss.

Which brings us to an old topic.

It is about time to have different flashes for different kind of impact. I find it hard to believe that a .30 cal round produces same hit flash as a 75mm Panzer shell. And this is just what we have now.

In fact, if you fire with 75 mm and co-ax 7.92mm, you can't tell the difference by the flashes.

Hit spprites and debris ala WB style might be good too.

[Tac]

Yep, some planes are made of titanium (la7, n1k fer example), some of paper mache & filled with helium (*cough* P-38), and some simply have no armor, so bullets zing through and dont kill unless you SAW something off...yes folks im talking about the legendary (in AH) "Fightin' Fireball" : The Zeke.

 

[SKurj]

Naudet.. at 300 yrds the MG's have not dropped as much as the 20mm's... you may have only hit with the 13's..  Especially if you were pulling any Gee at all


Salvo