After 9 years...

[Anaxogoras]

A couple tours ago I decided to see if I could get a good rank, and finished in the top 10.  It wasn't so difficult to do in terms of technique, but it requires a laundry list of chores.

The biggest adjustment I had to make was capturing fields.  Normally, I could give a rats rear about base capture, but you have to do it if you want a good rank.  Now, let's be clear, that base capture is required for a high rank has huge implications for how people will play the game.  To my mind, it has a negative impact.

Another adjustment you have to make is for bombing sorties.  You don't bomb when there's much of a chance that you might get shot down, that's terrible for your damage/death score.  Surprisingly, I think this has positive implications for gameplay if people wish to chase rank, provided that something is done to make the strats meaningful.  Otherwise they should be removed from the game.

Lastly, to get a good fighter score we all know it helps a lot to fly where there are friendlies nearby, and where the enemy is at a disadvantage.  Base defense is a no-no.  Ironically, to get a good fighter rank I had to make the adjustment to die more.  Landing too many sorties is bad for kills/time, so if I could get an extra kill here or there by going suicidal it was the right move now and then.  Now think about that one for its consequences on gameplay.

[Saurdaukar]

Anyone else consider the possibility that many of us are bored because we've been playing the same core game for almost a decade?

[mechanic]

so long as there is one person willing to fight all we need is the flight sim venue, thats my opinion. why add complex game mechanics to something that only needs the raw physics and some eye candy to be perfect?

[BnZs]

Okay,

Vulching your second account IS manipulating your score and cheating the system.

If one were to actually do nothing but vulch, I guess that might also fall into the same category, although I doubt there are enough vulches going on continuously to gather in many kills or keep the k/t stat from slipping.

Flying X plane, even if its an uber ENY 5 plane (which everyone can fly if they choose), even it is a perk plane (which everyone is free to do if they can earn the perks) and following whatever rules of engagement are so frowned upon IS NOT cheating or "gaming the game". If a player wants to fly a Stuka at 1,000 feet AGL into large crowds of red for fun and because they are disinterested in score, that is great. Good for you. But then we have wailing and gnashing of teeth by everyone "disinterested in score" because the guys on the front page are purportedly committing some great wickedness and crime against the game.

One, methinks thou protests too much. Two, I challenge anyone to match the numbers a guy like Steve or Shawk puts up, with any plane flown in any manner you wish. I know I can't do it, so the odd result is me actually not giving a damn about score. (I like to commit abit of aerial murder and get clean away with the dirty deed, but its not like I'm going to win #1 in fighters, I"ll not give a flip for score until I start getting paid commission on my kills.)

[Scotch]

The problem with score potatos like pacerr is that you have a whole arena with that mentality. That's where it interferes with those wanting something a little more pure.

Check out the SEA 2 arena tonight.

[Simaril]

Anyone else consider the possibility that many of us are bored because we've been playing the same core game for almost a decade?

Beat me to it.


Big reason the game is so fantastic at first is that it's all NEW to the player. Credit Dale and Pyro for designing a game that can keep us involved for years (when most games get stale after weeks) -- but don't be surprised that game doesn't feel the same after a decade of playing. Odds are the design isn't the problem...just our familiarity with it.

[The Fugitive]

You guys are missing the point... scores where only brought up in this thread as a tool to change how people play. I, as well as most of the "simmers" would love to see the scores and points go away. This would leave only the people who wish to fly and fight for the sake of the fight only!!! But HTC has said scores are here to stay, so I suggest we use them. Set them so they reward better flying, and fighting, and bombing and GVing. Set them up so that you only excel on the score board by excelling at the game, not by excelling at "gaming the game". In this way you create better players, which in the long run creates a better game.

[Simaril]

You guys are missing the point... scores where only brought up in this thread as a tool to change how people play. I, as well as most of the "simmers" would love to see the scores and points go away. This would leave only the people who wish to fly and fight for the sake of the fight only!!! But HTC has said scores are here to stay, so I suggest we use them. Set them so they reward better flying, and fighting, and bombing and GVing. Set them up so that you only excel on the score board by excelling at the game, not by excelling at "gaming the game". In this way you create better players, which in the long run creates a better game.

Not sure how many people actually play for score.

Yeah, yeah, I know...there are a long list of people who play for score....but we know the names because they're obvious, always popping up in the text buffer or the score list.

On the other hand, I think most people who play are shooting for one thing -- they want to feel like they've succeeded, in whatever way they interpret success.  I remember when success was just landing, and when success was landing a couple kills. Then success meant diving into a fight and coming out alive. And so on.

But what drove me was doing something and feeling I did  something right. Since the game has such a long learning curve, and since crowded arenas mean that if you make a mistake SOMEONE will make you pay, the drive for success means playing conservatively.

[BnZs]

The problem with score potatos like pacerr is that you have a whole arena with that mentality. That's where it interferes with those wanting something a little more pure.

Check out the SEA 2 arena tonight.

I've been around Pacerr in the air. I don't remember him cursing a blue streak or ranting on range, trying to be an armchair general on text, or stealing any kills from me, etc. If I remember correctly, he even gave me a check and cleared me once. Admittedly that is only a small amount of time to go on. I don't know whether or not he is an bellybutton on 200, since I do not read it. So what is so horrible about the guy?

[mechanic]

nothing, pacerr is a decent guy. People heckle him for his score whoring

[humble]

I've been around Pacerr in the air. I don't remember him cursing a blue streak or ranting on range, trying to be an armchair general on text, or stealing any kills from me, etc. If I remember correctly, he even gave me a check and cleared me once. Admittedly that is only a small amount of time to go on. I don't know whether or not he is an bellybutton on 200, since I do not read it. So what is so horrible about the guy?

Again, my comments on pacerr were simply in response to his status at the top of the rankings. My "issues" arent with him, simply with a system that forces certain behavors to score well while penalizing others.

[BnZs]

Again, my comments on pacerr were simply in response to his status at the top of the rankings. My "issues" arent with him, simply with a system that forces certain behavors to score well while penalizing others.

You are not going to find a fix to the scoring system that encourages people to fly, I dunno,  A-20s, into large seas of Spits, N1Ks, and La's. There is really no way to engineer the system to give extra points for "He shot down 3 in a 9v1!!!" situations. So continue to film and post and reap that which is worth 10,000 perks-bragging rights. 

From my perspective, the fact that Anax got a better score by flying, er, "stupider", means the system is already encouraging people to fly like idiots if they are after score. Which I don't think most of them are.

I mean, does anyone ever consider the fact that the guy bugging out is NOT interested in score? Perhaps he just doesn't want to give the other bastard the satisfaction. 

[humble]

Again my comments are not specific to my "rank", standing or individual choices. They are an observation about fundamental shifts in how the game is played. When I started in AW it to had a "score system" and some of the same issues existed. My original handle "humble" comes from the fact that I sucked so badly in the old AW "baby seal" arena it took me over 100 flights to even hit anything ..

It probably took me a year to get "good" and then another 6 months of polish before I went "score"...then a few months to refine things. I ended up giving up the great fights in the VOD to only patrol the big pond. At that moment for a brief window I was the best sushi chef in the game (in my little world of RR#2). I carved up whole squads en masse. By the end of a week I had something like 4 times the points of the closest guy to me...and was bored to tears. I actually "quit" RR and moved to FR. My 1st flight I was "Joe badass" right up till I blacked out and augered on my 1st merge. I spent the rest of the month getting waxed and learning all over and it took me months to even get a hand firmly on the bottom rung of the ladder again.

More importantly I learned "the code" and came to understand that score was measured in conduct, respect for the game and artistry in the individual encounter. Your true "score" was given to you by those you fought, not tallied by who you killed without consideration of the circumstances.

[Anaxogoras]

From my perspective, the fact that Anax got a better score by flying, er, "stupider", means the system is already encouraging people to fly like idiots if they are after score. Which I don't think most of them are.

Dying more was the adjustment I had to make to rank higher.  I have pretty good SA and enjoy landing, so I land often and have a high K/D ratio, but a low K/T score.  Someone else might have to make the opposite adjustment to get a high rank.  If they get 2-4 kills in furballs but die nearly every time, they will rank well but will never be in the top ten unless they make the adjustment to fly "smarter."  Getting a high fighter rank requires balance across all of the categories.  Excelling too much in some usually means doing poorly in another.

As for your comment about the guy bugging out, I agree completely.  There's a lot of people who fly very safely but who have a low fighter rank as a consequence.  If they wanted a high rank (and they understand how score works) you would see them take more risks.

[BnZs]

Well, I guess I just don't understand what is so "broken" about the AH MA. Seems to me you can usually go up into the sky, find planes to shoot, and planes trying to shoot you. Except for the fact that Spits are crossing swords with Mustangs and the like, otherwise the dynamics and tactics IMO seem to resemble those of the great WWII air melees I've read about.