Tiffy Roll Rate

[Manedew]

Seems to me the Typhoon went from average rollrate to among the worst roller's in AH.(haven't done many tests but think i can spin the p-38 faster than tiffy now ?!?!)
IMO pyro over did it.    ... also looking for some consitancey in FM ... relearning the tiffy will proably be harder than learning it the frist time(because i already know how to fly the damn thing) ...plus pisses me off to auger because my plane can't handle what i 'know' it can all the sudden.

tiffy was my main ride before ... not flying it much now because i auger all the damn time ...
This is frist thing HTC has done that i don't like (been here since late beta)

How come the n1k can climb like a heli and dive like a rock?, is this right .. and if it isn't why pick on the tiffy and not it?  

Well would like to whine more ... but i won't
 

[Karnak]

Manedew,

The Tiffe had a very noticable divergence from its historical performance that was able to be seen with hard data.  The N1K2 doesn't have that proble.  It is a 5800lb aircraft with a 1900hp engine, it is going to do some incredible manuevers.

About the roll rate reduction being over done, I don't think so.  It matches the numbers now.

Now you know why RAF Fighter Command was disappointed in the Typhoon and came within a hairs breadth of canceling it altogether.  It juast wasn't a satisfactory air-to-air fighter, which is what they had ordered.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

[funked]

Well somebody dug up NACA data showing it should roll poorly.  This doesn't jive with test pilot reports or the pilot's notes but there's gotta be something to it.  

I haven't done a test to see if the new Tiffy conforms with the NACA data yet.  But I flew it once and didn't notice a difference, and got 6 kills.  

[funked]

PS Karnak the top three REAL problems with the Typhoon were as follows:
1.  Engine Reliability.
2.  Napier Sabre Reliability.
3.  Sleeve Valve Reliability.

"It's the engine, stupid!"
 

[Hans]

And a bad habit of losing the tail section at high speed (corrected with some scab patches on the fuselauge tail section, visibile on the game's plane).

Hans.

[Replicant]

Yep Manedew, I've been having the same problem.  Before it was my main ride but at the moment I'm flying it less and trying out other 'rides'.  Some other Tiffy pilots like to BnZ but I use it mainly for Jabo and if in combat then scissoring.  Now with Jabo it's very difficult to pull up in time and you often auger.  So, still trying to get used to pulling up a hell of a lot earlier.  Also the reduced roll rate has made scissoring extremely difficult for me and I can't BnZ to save my life.  I do think it has been over done, and yes I agree that it is perhaps the worst in AH now - the IL2 is much more manouvrable!!

Regards

Nexx

[Citabria]

the P-38L has power ailerons. it should roll quite nicely.

a p-38FGHJ without these will roll quite poorly. similar to the tiffy  

and as is now the tiffy dont roll bad at all but it is now no longer an fw190 roll wagon with 375mph deck speed.

[Dux]

I wouldn't mind so much if the Osties' rate of fire hadn't been increased so much. Now the Tiffy has a hard time getting out of its own way.

If the roll rate is accurate, then so be it. Still one of my favorite planes (was loooong before AH).

[straffo]

 

Originally posted by Dux:
I wouldn't mind so much if the Osties' rate of fire hadn't been increased so much. Now the Tiffy has a hard time getting out of its own way.

If the roll rate is accurate, then so be it. Still one of my favorite planes (was loooong before AH).

Still waiting for a salvo fix for the ostie (I know we are in virtual world but gun don't like being firing endlessy  )

[Vermillion]

Yes and No Citabria.

At low to medium speeds where stick forces are not an issue, the P-38L will roll approximately the same as the earlier models.

Its at high speeds were the powered ailerons, overcame high stick forces, that gave the L model a superior roll rate.

I had a long discussion on this issue with a WWII pilot I met one day at the National Air & Space Musuems Garber facility, while we were both on the tour there.  He flew the P-38F, P-38G, and the P-38L. He basically said that no matter if it was a F or a L it rolled like a sick dog.

Edit: Hehe and for all you P-38 fanatics that cry "PORKED" all the time, because the stall characteristics don't match pilot accounts, just remember that the Aces High P-38 also does not match the described roll inertia of the WWII vet accounts. There should be a pronounced hesitation from the time that you move the control stick until the time the aircraft begins to roll. THEN its roll rate should be approximately what we have in AH today. So how realistic do we really want the AH P-38L ?  

*gets out stopwatch to see how long it takes Citabria, Tac, or other P-38 Fanatic to respond   *

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 05-29-2001).]

[Manedew]

It's the lack of a good roll at high speeds i really dislike; if i get the wind under my wing with my rudder and airelion's i don't care what kind of airleion's you have, you'll roll fast... buffs can even do this if they can take the stress. Tiffy now seems 'dampened' too this effect.

and btw i can roll any fw190 2-3x faster than tiffy ever could, so don't compare em'  
but 190 rollrate is almost too fast  

[Naudet]

FW190 rollrate is for sure not to fast, to me it seems its to low in AH, yet i have not managed to do a 180 degree roll in 1 sec with the A8 at 645 kmph. That is what it should do, it rolled so fast that it could perform the Split-S in a blink of an eye as RAF pilots reported, till they got one to exaim they wondered how it simply disappeared.

The P38 has atm the prob that the control react to fast, for a bird with such a large wingspan (compared to other fighters) it took some time for the roll to be initiated (in the FW190 this at all didnt take enought time to be noted), after that maybe the P38 has some good rollrate.

The Tiffie is also a bird with huge wing area and so roll rate could never get close to the FW190.

Roll rate is only related to wingspan, wingarea and aileron size. For wingspan and -area counts, the smaller the better and for aileron the bigger the better.

Now take the numbers and compare FW190, P38 and Tiffie.

And to do some other test, take 2 a wood boards 1 small and 1 large. No move em through the air and u will see that for the larger board u need much more initiating and maintaing power to move em at the same speed as the small.

[Tac]

P38 roll rate at slow speed is almost the same as tiffie NOW. Tiffie does roll a bit faster imo.

At high speeds, above 300mph, the P-38 will roll much faster.

[Manedew]

Maybe 1.25 sec's for full roll on a-8 nowhere near 2secs maybe even less than 1 second
tiffy's new roll rate = about 4 sec's
tbm's is about 4sec's
most planes are around 2sec's or so

my thoughts say it should take tiffy maybe 2.5-3.0 sec's max.

hope this gets my point across

[Manedew]

damn netscape 6 posted twice  


[This message has been edited by Manedew (edited 05-29-2001).]