Author Topic: New Vid Card  (Read 2663 times)

Offline BaldEagl

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Re: New Vid Card
« Reply #60 on: February 06, 2009, 08:26:48 AM »
Two video card choices at $45 each:

EVGA 512-P3-N954-TR GeForce 9500 GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130378

Minimum of a 350 Watt power supply.
(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 18 Amp Amps.)

SAPPHIRE 100253L Radeon HD 4650 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102805

400 Watt or greater power supply

Not sure how good this PSU is but it appears to have enough power to run those cards ($30):

Thermaltake Purepower W0100RU 500W ATX 12V 2.0 Power Supply

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153052

+3.3V@22A,+5V@32A,+12V1@14A,+12V2@15A,
-12V@0.3A,+5VSB@2A
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 08:29:46 AM by BaldEagl »
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Offline Serenity

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Re: New Vid Card
« Reply #61 on: February 07, 2009, 02:15:47 AM »
Wow, thanks Bald! Any other opinions on the package Bald found vs Fulmar's package? I really don't know what all the the numbers mean so I'm relying on you all to show me the way to go.

Offline eagl

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Re: New Vid Card
« Reply #62 on: February 07, 2009, 08:38:52 AM »
I really don't know what all the the numbers mean so I'm relying on you all to show me the way to go.

You've been doing this for a couple of years...  Time to learn  :aok
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Offline Serenity

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Re: New Vid Card
« Reply #63 on: February 07, 2009, 03:06:12 PM »
You've been doing this for a couple of years...  Time to learn  :aok

lol. And just how would I do that?

Offline eagl

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Re: New Vid Card
« Reply #64 on: February 07, 2009, 09:57:30 PM »
lol. And just how would I do that?

Same way most others do...  Read up on it (do some research online), learn what the standards are, what they mean, etc.  Then try some stuff out.  Use the computer to do more than gaming and blogging (or whatever it is you do with your computer).  Search for computer optimization, and research some of the settings.  Learn how to set up a network.  Download a linux installation, run it off of the live cd or install it on a second hard drive, and get it working well enough to do everything you use windows for (it's completely possible to do this).

You just have to look at the computer as a system of systems that can be used to do your bidding, not just a fancy appliance that lets you use a web browser and play games.  And you have to try stuff.  If you don't know something, you have to take a little time to look it up.  Don't stop with one website about the topic either, look at a few different ones.  And then try it out.

Oh yea, it helps if you do this on a computer that isn't used for critical tasks...  Wrecking your mom's computer isn't helpful.  Use some beater computer or better yet, go to garage sales and buy enough parts to build your own cheapo beater computer.  Linux runs just fine on computer hardware that is 15 years old, so that's a great place to learn a LOT about computers.

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Offline Serenity

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Re: New Vid Card
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2009, 10:03:13 PM »
Same way most others do...  Read up on it (do some research online), learn what the standards are, what they mean, etc.  Then try some stuff out.  Use the computer to do more than gaming and blogging (or whatever it is you do with your computer).  Search for computer optimization, and research some of the settings.  Learn how to set up a network.  Download a linux installation, run it off of the live cd or install it on a second hard drive, and get it working well enough to do everything you use windows for (it's completely possible to do this).

You just have to look at the computer as a system of systems that can be used to do your bidding, not just a fancy appliance that lets you use a web browser and play games.  And you have to try stuff.  If you don't know something, you have to take a little time to look it up.  Don't stop with one website about the topic either, look at a few different ones.  And then try it out.

Oh yea, it helps if you do this on a computer that isn't used for critical tasks...  Wrecking your mom's computer isn't helpful.  Use some beater computer or better yet, go to garage sales and buy enough parts to build your own cheapo beater computer.  Linux runs just fine on computer hardware that is 15 years old, so that's a great place to learn a LOT about computers.



Yeah... only computers I have to play with are quite new, and rather expensive. I really don't have the money to buy myself a computer JUST for tinkering. I've tried doing some research, but honestly I just find it more confusing the more I look. I'm thinking of taking some computer classes in college though, but for now, I just want to build myself something decent to game on for a few years.

Offline Speed55

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Re: New Vid Card
« Reply #66 on: February 10, 2009, 11:12:44 AM »
Quote
Aces High II is fill-rate limited, where the performance of the game is directly tied to the fill-rate of the video card.
Memory performance, of a video card, will have an effect in Aces High II as well.

Quote from Skuzzy  when i was trying to get my card settings adjusted.   So i guess if you're still looking for a card in a certain price range, and AHII is your main game, then these are two things that you can use to measure one card against another.
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: New Vid Card
« Reply #67 on: February 10, 2009, 12:42:10 PM »
Quote from Skuzzy  when i was trying to get my card settings adjusted.   So i guess if you're still looking for a card in a certain price range, and AHII is your main game, then these are two things that you can use to measure one card against another.


The single greatest video card specification in determining performance is memory bandwidth expressed in Gb/s which is directly tied to memory type (DDR2/DDR3, etc.) and memory speed (expressed in Mhz).  Unfortunately, this is not a spec that's listed on the retail web-sites but the memory type and speed typically are.  I'm not sure about ATI but eVGA does list this spec for all current products on their web-site.  Pixel pipelines are also important as I'll explain in the first paragraph below.

For the stock 9500 GT, 9600 GT and 9800 GT their memory bandwidths are 25.6 Gb/s, 57.6 Gb/s and 57.6 Gb/s respectively.  The substantiating difference in the 9800 GT over the 9600 GT are their 112 vs 64 pixel pipelines respectively.  Pixel pipelines affect pixel and texture fill-rate which is important in 3D applications/gaming by increasing the pixel/texel per clock performance.  If the applicaton you are running isn't 3D, the 9600 should give performance similar to the 9800.  The price differential is about $20 as you step up from one of these cards to the next so the 9600 GT provides the best value from a price/performance perspective for normal computing but the 9800 is a worthy upgrade if gaming.

When comparing similar cards, the 9800 GTX, 9800 GTX+ and 9800GTX+ Superclocked, the memory bandwidths are 70.4 Gb/s, 70.4 Gb/s and 71.8 Gb/s repectively.  The 9800 GTX and 9800 GTX+ both have effective RAM speeds of 2200 Mhz although the GPU clock on the 9800 GTX+ is 740Mhz vs 675Mhz for the 9800 GTX.  Obviously the RAM speed is the limiting factor between these cards.  I'd expect performance to be similar but the GTX+ should be able to handle slightly more difficult processing.  The 9800 GTX Superclocked has a faster GPU (756 Mhz) and faster RAM (2246 Mhz) and should be the better of these three cards.  The price differential between these cards is only $10 as you step from one to the next. and the statistics bear this performance difference out.  Tomshardware shows only a 3% performance gain in FPS (3Dmark) going from the 9800 GTX to the GTX+.  If it were me I'd save the money on the GTX+, buy the GTX and overclock it myself.  If you're not comfortable doing that then spending the $20 for the factory overclocked version is a reasonable price to pay. 

Finally, as we look at different memory configurations the 9600 GT 512 and the 9600 GT 1024 both have GPU clocks of 650 Mhz, Effective RAM speeds of 1800 Mhz and memory bandwidths of 57.6 Gb/s.  Performance wise these cards should be very similar unless you are using V-RAM intesive programs or proccesses (video editing, etc.) at which point the 9600 GT 1024 makes sense but for $45 more I'd want to make sure that's the case (AH won't use that much memory; 512 Mb is certainly sufficient).

These particular cards were used only for the purposes of providing examples.  Finding benchmark tests to substantiate what you think the stats are telling you is always a good idea.

[EDIT]  Of course I could be wrong but those are my observations.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 01:52:24 PM by BaldEagl »
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline Serenity

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Re: New Vid Card
« Reply #68 on: February 10, 2009, 08:33:47 PM »
The price differential between these cards is only $10 as you step from one to the next.

First off, thank you so much for this write-up. Its sorta making sense now... Where did you find such a cheap price on a 9800? Im looking at a 9600 for about 79.99, since I havn't found anything better that even comes close to that price, and the min. requirement I have on one of my games is a 6600.

Offline BaldEagl

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Re: New Vid Card
« Reply #69 on: February 10, 2009, 10:56:01 PM »
First off, thank you so much for this write-up. Its sorta making sense now... Where did you find such a cheap price on a 9800? Im looking at a 9600 for about 79.99, since I havn't found anything better that even comes close to that price, and the min. requirement I have on one of my games is a 6600.

I didn't give a price on the 9800 did I?  For th eprice differentials I was using the full bloat retail pricing from the eVGA website.  IIRC the 9800 GT is just over $100 and the GTX is around $150.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 11:00:52 PM by BaldEagl »
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Offline Serenity

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Re: New Vid Card
« Reply #70 on: February 11, 2009, 12:25:06 AM »
I didn't give a price on the 9800 did I?  For th eprice differentials I was using the full bloat retail pricing from the eVGA website.  IIRC the 9800 GT is just over $100 and the GTX is around $150.

I thought you meant the 9800 was $10 more than the 9600, was $10 more than the 9500

Offline drdeathx

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Re: New Vid Card
« Reply #71 on: February 11, 2009, 12:12:31 PM »
Serenity,

Don't even think of the 9500 or 9600. The 9800 is a great card but I will tell you this, Why spend all that money for just Aces High. I owned 3 different card configurations in last 6 months. You will need a new PSU with the Nvidea cards.The ATI 3870 is more than adequate to run Aces High. ATI recommends a 300 W or better PSU for 3870.You will probably be "OK" with your PSU. ATI cards demand less power than Nvidea. With all due respect to all the others(VERY KNOWLEDGABLE) but I owned an ATI 3870, ATI 4870 and Nvidea GTX280. I will recommend ATI 4350 for $50 but here is a real "HOT BUY"! ATI 4650 1G card for $83. These 2 will be best bang for buck.I believe the 4000 series requires a 400W power supply. Lets do the math: 450W psu can be bout appr. $50 = 4350 ATI card= $100. Cheap!   4650 1G card $83 = 450W psu @ $50 $123= BEST BANG FOR BUCK!  Remember all other cards are 512.


http://www.xpcgear.com/gigabyte-4650-1gb-600mhz-gv-r465oc-1gi-crossfirex-hdmi-video-card.html
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 12:34:37 PM by drdeathx »
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: New Vid Card
« Reply #72 on: February 11, 2009, 01:04:37 PM »
Serenity,

Don't even think of the 9500 or 9600. The 9800 is a great card but I will tell you this, Why spend all that money for just Aces High. I owned 3 different card configurations in last 6 months. You will need a new PSU with the Nvidea cards.The ATI 3870 is more than adequate to run Aces High. ATI recommends a 300 W or better PSU for 3870.You will probably be "OK" with your PSU. ATI cards demand less power than Nvidea. With all due respect to all the others(VERY KNOWLEDGABLE) but I owned an ATI 3870, ATI 4870 and Nvidea GTX280. I will recommend ATI 4350 for $50 but here is a real "HOT BUY"! ATI 4650 1G card for $83. These 2 will be best bang for buck.I believe the 4000 series requires a 400W power supply. Lets do the math: 450W psu can be bout appr. $50 = 4350 ATI card= $100. Cheap!   4650 1G card $83 = 450W psu @ $50 $123= BEST BANG FOR BUCK!  Remember all other cards are 512.


http://www.xpcgear.com/gigabyte-4650-1gb-600mhz-gv-r465oc-1gi-crossfirex-hdmi-video-card.html

One should also remember that 1G ram on lower end cards is a marketing ploy with no real world benefits. Memory bandwith is the limiting factor.
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Offline Fulmar

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Re: New Vid Card
« Reply #73 on: February 11, 2009, 01:33:15 PM »
One should also remember that 1G ram on lower end cards is a marketing ploy with no real world benefits. Memory bandwith is the limiting factor.
You mainly see it in the ever lower end cards like 4650 and the 9400's.  As you mentioned memory bandwidth is the key here.  These cards are using only DDR2 (which is so cheap right now that MFGers can easily add more ram for only $5 more.

The applications where you need that extra ram aren't always there.  They'll help in certain programs where you need a lot of textures loaded etc, but the games that have these high memory requirements generally over tax the speed of these lower end cards.  That's why benchmark results between these 512 and 1gb DDR2 cards are pretty small.
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Offline Serenity

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Re: New Vid Card
« Reply #74 on: February 11, 2009, 09:56:13 PM »
Serenity,

Don't even think of the 9500 or 9600. The 9800 is a great card but I will tell you this, Why spend all that money for just Aces High. I owned 3 different card configurations in last 6 months. You will need a new PSU with the Nvidea cards.The ATI 3870 is more than adequate to run Aces High. ATI recommends a 300 W or better PSU for 3870.You will probably be "OK" with your PSU. ATI cards demand less power than Nvidea. With all due respect to all the others(VERY KNOWLEDGABLE) but I owned an ATI 3870, ATI 4870 and Nvidea GTX280. I will recommend ATI 4350 for $50 but here is a real "HOT BUY"! ATI 4650 1G card for $83. These 2 will be best bang for buck.I believe the 4000 series requires a 400W power supply. Lets do the math: 450W psu can be bout appr. $50 = 4350 ATI card= $100. Cheap!   4650 1G card $83 = 450W psu @ $50 $123= BEST BANG FOR BUCK!  Remember all other cards are 512.


http://www.xpcgear.com/gigabyte-4650-1gb-600mhz-gv-r465oc-1gi-crossfirex-hdmi-video-card.html

The 9600 is only $79.99, so do those cards provide the same quality?

This isn't JUST for Aces High, I have several other games as well, one has a minimum capability of an NVIDIA 6600, so...