Somali Pirates - I don't get it.

[RTHolmes]

They have never once been "on their feet" so how can you " get them back on their feet"?

they were doing pretty well until we Brits colonised the place in the 19th century, and not bad in the '60s when they got their independence. they really got screwed in the mid 70s with the arrival of a proper african dictatorship and things have been bad ever since. do you have anything to back up this statement apart from your assumptions based on the fact that they are african?

The only solution is to start arming the freighter crews. But the fact that they cant be is typical of any dribble coming out of the UN. We can call this Somali thing the INTL equivalent of big city gun control.

as mentioned, merchant vessels aren't armed due to the Geneva convention (1863), formation of the UN was 1945. unrelated.

[indy007]

Funny thing, the most effective defensive weapon so far has been firefighting equipment   I guess a well-aimed hose has about the same range and better accuracy than an RPG fired from a dinghy.

Personally, I figure they should put 3-man Seal teams on a random selection of cargo vessels, armed with a .50 and some portable anti-armor (TOW equivalent) weapons.  Invite the pirates in a bit, pop open a hatch and kablooi.

And the best part - don't publicize any of it, especially if they actually blow up some pirates.  Pirates simply disappearing without a trace will be a pretty good deterrent.  And any captain on any boat in international waters has the authority to execute pirates, so it's even more legal than shooting an armed intruder in your own house (which you can't do in many countries, but those countries recognize the ultimate authority of a captain on the high seas).

I just saw a special on it. Basically, you're not in international waters. Ships are forced to pass by the Somali coast in that area. If you light up a pirate, you're still subject to Somali law and have to make your case in court. Some companies hire private security, and they're heavily armed. They will still end up in court though even in a case of self defense. Would you trust a Somali legal system?

[bongaroo]

I was under the impression that the Somali government is still completely defunct.  Do they even have an operating justice system?

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Just return to the old ways of East Indian liners with 20 cannons..

[Curval]

I just saw a special on it. Basically, you're not in international waters. Ships are forced to pass by the Somali coast in that area. If you light up a pirate, you're still subject to Somali law and have to make your case in court. Some companies hire private security, and they're heavily armed. They will still end up in court though even in a case of self defense. Would you trust a Somali legal system?

They have to catch you first.

The Somali govt. (whatever that may be) make no efforts to control these pirates so someone's got to do it for them.  I don't think Somalia has a formal legal system.

[68Wooley]

I just saw a special on it. Basically, you're not in international waters. Ships are forced to pass by the Somali coast in that area. If you light up a pirate, you're still subject to Somali law and have to make your case in court. Some companies hire private security, and they're heavily armed. They will still end up in court though even in a case of self defense. Would you trust a Somali legal system?

No one in their right mind is going into actual Somali territorial waters i.e. within 12 nautical miles of the coast. Assuming Somalia had a working judiciary, that would be the limit of their jurisdiction for non-Somalian flagged vessels. Merchant ships have been advised to stay at least 50 miles offshore and attacks have been reported up to 100 miles offshore.

Somalia hasn't had an effective government since the early 90's so the chances of ending up in court there are slim. Shot by some crazed warlord yes, but court, not so much.

[ROX]

Funny thing, the most effective defensive weapon so far has been firefighting equipment   I guess a well-aimed hose has about the same range and better accuracy than an RPG fired from a dinghy.

Personally, I figure they should put 3-man Seal teams on a random selection of cargo vessels, armed with a .50 and some portable anti-armor (TOW equivalent) weapons.  Invite the pirates in a bit, pop open a hatch and kablooi.

And the best part - don't publicize any of it, especially if they actually blow up some pirates.  Pirates simply disappearing without a trace will be a pretty good deterrent.  And any captain on any boat in international waters has the authority to execute pirates, so it's even more legal than shooting an armed intruder in your own house (which you can't do in many countries, but those countries recognize the ultimate authority of a captain on the high seas).


That would be a nice idea if international law did not make arming civilian ships illegal.

Only military ships can be armed.

However:  desperate times call for desperate measures.  Some companies are hiring paramilitary security (armed) services to escort their ships (especially around Indonesia and Maylasia).  I like your idea....to heck with international law.  Pirates can die.



ROX

[Hornet33]

The best way to handle pirates is for the Navy and Coast Guard to create a joint command. Buy a bunch of old cargo ships like this.



Modify several cargo containers so the sides drop down and have one of these inside. 25MM Bushmaster Cannon



Have some of these fore and aft. 7.62mm MiniGun



Add extra armor plate to critical areas of the ship. Install a fully functional Combat Information Center with the latest in surface search radars, FLIR systems, and low light cameras, and go trolling for pirates. Wait for them to attack, then cut them to pieces.

[indy007]

I'm just saying what the expert on the show was explaining. I wouldn't go anywhere near there without helicopter gunships. The Somali legal system kinda-sorta exists. It depends on whoever controls Mogadishu at the moment. Beyond that, you can still end up in a world's court, which happened to several foreigners that fought as mercenaries in Somalia & Bosnia.

[crazyivan]

History Channel had  a thing on this. Showed a sound weapon called the LRAD..

[Rich46yo]

as mentioned, merchant vessels aren't armed due to the Geneva convention (1863), formation of the UN was 1945. unrelated.

Well then That useless House of Prostitution, currently occupying U.S. soil, can throw a few words around on a new piece of paper and change it. Better yet just let the freighter crews pack anyways, the Yank ones anyway, and say anyone who doesn't like it can go complain in Geneva. Since when did the Geneva convention have anything to do with merchant vessels flying under flags of countries not at war anyways? I always thought the Geneva convention only applied to parties of a conflict, and only then when the conflict was being fought by constituted military arms of signatory nations. Were not at war with Somalia, and even if we were it wouldn't be against a constituted military arm of a signatory nation.

BTW The Geneva Convention was 1929. The first draft anyways. The 2nd draft was 1949.

What would the GC have to do with arming freighter crews anyway? Please do post some proof, "but try not to sound like a Lawyer".

OK your right there, 1864. I'd forgot. But I still dont see anything in it that would prevent freighter crews from being armed.

[Iron_Cross]

I hate to say it, but some ports of call/nations have pretty draconian firearms laws, and you would fall under their jurisdiction, since you are then most defiantly not in international waters.  If on a routine contraband inspection, the port authorities find any thing against their laws, some of your crew/captain are going to be in a foreign prison for a few years till their case comes up before their courts.  So most Shipping companies deal with that by simply forbidding crew to carry firearms.

[mensa180]

I would guess so that it did not give people like the Germans in WWI an excuse to torpedo our ships.

[Vulcan]

The Indonesia's are doing some stuff with some US govt agencies at the moment with fake ships trying to lure out pirates. Saw this on a doco about 5 months ago.

[Roundeye]

I've got the solution.  Install large boilers on the ships and hook them to the water cannons.  Everyone knows hot water cleans better than cold water.  Giving them in effect giant pressure washers that spew boiling hot water for you know....things like stripping off salt pray, exhaust smut and bird droppings from the ship...........oh yea........and for stripping the skin off of would-be pirates

NOT a weapon.  And eco-friendly to boot .

When little boats start washing up on shore with boiled corpses laying amongst AKs and RPGs, word would travel.