Im getting a new computer

[MrRiplEy[H]]

I thought of ram the while napping.

Was that S2 or S3 state? 

[TilDeath]

Please  please please understand what you're posting about.

I copied this from the Internet because it's well stated and I didn't want to have to type all this out:

A large, single 12-volt rail (without a 240VA limit) can transfer 100% of the 12-volt output from the PSU to the computer, while a multi-rail 12-volt design has distribution losses of up to 30% of the power supply's rating. Those losses occur because power literally gets "trapped" on under-utilized rails. For example, if the 12-volt rail that powers the CPU is rated for 17 amps and the CPU only uses 7A, the remaining 10A is unusable, since it is isolated from the rest of the system.

Since the maximum current from any one 12-volt rail of a multiple-rail PSU is limited to 20 amps (240VA / 12 volts = 20 amps), PCs with high-performance components that draw over 20 amps from the same rail are subject to over-current shutdowns. With power requirements for multiple processors and graphics cards continuing to grow, the multiple-rail design, with its 240VA limit per rail, is basically obsolete.

Obsolete might be a little strong but you get the idea.  This is the reason I and so many others on these BBs reccomend PC Power and Cooling as they all use large single rails.

One more thing; if you have a 20 amp rail running at 80% efficiency you're only getting 16 amps off that rail which may not be enough to power a high end video card.

[EDIT]  Infowars, it sounds like you're not up to building one yourself and want to buy pre-built.  Is that correct?  If so is there any particular reason that you want to buy it at Circuit City vs. Best Buy, Dell or anywhere else?

The best bang for the buck would be building it yourself.  Either way, you're not going to get much for $500 but let us know and we'll help as much as possible.

A single 12 volt rail PSU just has one output circuit which generates 12 volts. All the various connectors which supply 12 volts are hooked to that one output. This kind of PSU will work just fine with a modern computer as long as it can deliver the wattage. That's true even if the motherboard requires the extra 4 pin or 8 pin 12 volt CPU connector or if your video card requires the 6 pin PCI-Express connector. As long as your single 12 volt rail PSU has all of those extra connectors and sufficient wattage then things will work properly.

Multiple independent 12 volt rails PSU

A multiple independent 12 volt rails PSU has more than one 12 volt rail. Each of the 12 volt rails has its own separate circuitry. Each of the 12 volt power connectors on the PSU cables is hooked up to one of the 12 volt rails. Since this is merely a PC PSU rather than a "real" one, the manufacturers often don't feel obligated to tell you which connector is hooked to which rail.

One reason to have multiple separate 12 volt rails is to improve the load regulation and noise on the rail. When you connect an active load to a voltage rail you tend to end up with a noisy rail which jumps around a lot. It's not a nice flat voltage. It varies. The more active loads you hook to a rail the messier it gets. So building a PSU with independent 12 volt rails improves the "cleanness" of the power on each rail. Normally this is only done if you have some circuitry which is extremely picky about the quality of its voltage rails because separate rails cost more money than a single rail.

By the way, in case you're ever tempted to hook the independent 12 volt rails together (I've seen people on the Internet who think this is a good idea), don't do it. Your 12 volt rails may have different ideas about what voltage they should set their rails to. One may be quite a bit different than another. They're separate rails, after all, and they have their own circuitry which controls the voltage. They're bound to vary a bit. And if they're just a little different then you can draw lots of current when you connect them together because each of the output circuits try to force the voltage on the same wires to a different value. That causes either a nice orderly shutdown from the over-current protection or smoke and sparks. There are some power supplies which have switches which allow you to gang the rails together. Once you've set the switch properly it's okay to connect them.

This is the specs for my TT 1200 watt PS  Notice the 36amps on V3 and V4

Source http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1245&ID=1512#Tab1

[BaldEagl]

infowars, since we talked on-line last night and you mentioned you might be willing to build I put this together for you this morning.  I haven't tweaked it out... it's just a rough idea and many here will likely come up with other component ideas.  It's also just slightly above your budget.  If $500 is a hard and fast number we can save a little by going to an AMD system, smaller hard drive, lesser video card, etc. 

As I mentioned to you last night, the system you are considering will be limited by the on-board video, and when you decide you want to upgrade that, you'll also have to upgrade the power supply.  See Serenity's thread in this forum.  He has a similar machine with the same on-board video.

If you still decide you want to buy at a store, let us kno and we'll help as much as possible.

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Update   SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223F - OEM
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Update   Creative Sound Blaster SB0570 Audigy SE 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail
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Subtotal: $597.89 - $50 MIR's = $557.89 + shipping on 4 components

[drdeathx]

So I would like Tildeath to establish 1 Rail or 2 rail.....lol

[drdeathx]

One reason to have multiple separate 12 volt rails is to improve the load regulation and noise on the rail. When you connect an active load to a voltage rail you tend to end up with a noisy rail which jumps around a lot. It's not a nice flat voltage. It varies. The more active loads you hook to a rail the messier it gets. So building a PSU with independent 12 volt rails improves the "cleanness" of the power on each rail. Normally this is only done if you have some circuitry which is extremely picky about the quality of its voltage rails because separate rails cost more money than a single rail.

[TilDeath]

infowars, since we talked on-line last night and you mentioned you might be willing to build I put this together for you this morning.  I haven't tweaked it out... it's just a rough idea and many here will likely come up with other component ideas.  It's also just slightly above your budget.  If $500 is a hard and fast number we can save a little by going to an AMD system, smaller hard drive, lesser video card, etc. 

As I mentioned to you last night, the system you are considering will be limited by the on-board video, and when you decide you want to upgrade that, you'll also have to upgrade the power supply.  See Serenity's thread in this forum.  He has a similar machine with the same on-board video.

If you still decide you want to buy at a store, let us kno and we'll help as much as possible.

Update   COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW Black Aluminum Bezel , SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Model #:CAC-T05-UW
Item #:N82E16811119068
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
  $54.99 -$10.00 Instant $44.99
   
Update   Intel BOXD945GCNL LGA 775 Intel 945GC Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Model #:BOXD945GCNL
Item #:N82E16813121319
Return Policy:Limited 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
  $74.99 -$5.00 Instant $69.99
   
Update   MSI N9600GT 512M OC GeForce 9600 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Model #:N9600GT 512M OC
Item #:N82E16814127333
Return Policy:Limited 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
Mail-in Rebate

  $109.99   $109.99 - $30.00 MIR = 79.99
   
Update   PC Power & Cooling Silencer S41D2 410W ATX12V Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
Model #:S41D2
Item #:N82E16817703014
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
Mail-in Rebate

  $64.99 -$5.00 Instant $59.99 - $20.00 MIR = 39.99 Free Shipping
   
Update   Intel Pentium E2180 Allendale 2.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80557E2180 - Retail
Model #:BX80557E2180
Item #:N82E16819116052
Return Policy:Processors (CPUs) Return Policy
In Stock
  $69.99   $69.99 Free Shipping
   
Update   Kingston 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KVR667D2N5K2/2G - Retail
Model #:KVR667D2N5K2/2G
Item #:N82E16820134046
Return Policy:Limited Non-Refundable 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
  $27.99   $27.99 Free Shipping
   
Update   Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Model #:ST3250410AS
Item #:N82E16822148262
Return Policy:Limited 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
  $54.99   $54.99 Free Shipping
   
Update   Microsoft CA9-00001 Black PS/2 Standard Basic Keyboard and Mouse - OEM
Model #:CA9-00001S
Item #:N82E16823109132
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
  $15.99 -$1.00 Instant $14.99
   
Update   SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223F - OEM
Model #:SH-S223F
Item #:N82E16827151171
Return Policy:Limited 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
  $24.99   $24.99 Free Shipping
   
Update   Creative Sound Blaster SB0570 Audigy SE 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail
Model #:70SB057000000
Item #:N82E16829102002
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
  $29.99   $29.99 Free Shipping
   
Update   Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition SP3 English for System Builders 1 Pack CD - OEM
Model #:N09-02215
Item #:N82E16832116511
Return Policy:Software Return Policy
In Stock
  $89.99   $89.99 Free Shipping
Subtotal: $597.89 - $50 MIR's = $557.89 + shipping on 4 components

 Were you aware that the power supply your are suggesting is for Dell machines (Source http://www.pcpower.com/search.html?q=S41D2+&x=6&y=7  you had also mentioned "efficency" this is the same (source http://www.pcpower.com/products/description/Silencer_500_Dell/index.html)  But this PSU may be for Dell mounted cases and not CoolerMaster.

[BaldEagl]

Were you aware that the power supply your are suggesting is for Dell machines (Source http://www.pcpower.com/search.html?q=S41D2+&x=6&y=7  you had also mentioned "efficency" this is the same (source http://www.pcpower.com/products/description/Silencer_500_Dell/index.html)  But this PSU may be for Dell mounted cases and not CoolerMaster.

No.  Thanks for pointing that out.  I did that pretty quick yesterday morning and just did a quick scan to be sure it was putting out enough amps.

[Alaskn]

Hello all I am also wanting to build a computer. I am going to use it for aceshigh only. I do have a vid card a 7950 gt nvidia ddr 512 mb. I have no Idea what to buy and could use all the help I can get. I do not under stand alot of what you guys are saying so I will take your word for it. If tildeath reads this & has a computer store I think we can do some business. thanks  and you can email me also   alskn6969@aol.com

[BaldEagl]

Hello all I am also wanting to build a computer. I am going to use it for aceshigh only. I do have a vid card a 7950 gt nvidia ddr 512 mb. I have no Idea what to buy and could use all the help I can get. I do not under stand alot of what you guys are saying so I will take your word for it. If tildeath reads this & has a computer store I think we can do some business. thanks  and you can email me also   alskn6969@aol.com

Prepare to get bombarded now that the spambots have your e-mail addy.

[Alaskn]

aol does a good job at stopping that