REMOVE EXTERNAL VIEW FROM VEHICLES

[Citabria]

ex: 2 panzers
1 is behind a hill waiting to pounce the other.

one panzer goes to external view and uses their "500foot observation baloon" and looks over the hill and remotely targets the other panzer WITHOUT A DIRECT LINE OF SIGHT.

please for the love of god remove this external view since we have the comanders position directly on top of the tank.

no reason to be hull down with that kind of super scouting power at the press of a button.

I've done it and had it happen to me and either way it ruins the tanking/vehicle experience.

[Fishu]

I haven't seen that happen even once..
Of course, if external will be removed from vehicles, I must require to have multiple views open same time.
Gunner, Commander and driver so that I can see around and not work like french tank commander who spots targets, reloads gun, aims gun.. and so on.
Also there is no obstacles or forrests to hide in, so need to see around is even more important.

[CavemanJ]

awfully hard to adjust aim like that isn't it?
Every time I fire that main gun the recoil kicks it around and it's never come right back to the same point I was aiming at.

[Citabria]

its the fact that you can look over the hill before you get over it.
the element of surprise is lost

these are tanks.
visability should suck

[This message has been edited by Citabria (edited 07-16-2000).]

[Downtown]

I agree with Citibria, but want the abliity to slew 360 in that TC Postion first.

I almost always use external views on the tanks. (I say leave em of the M-16 though)

And quite often do as Cit says.  I haven't done it to another tank, but have for hitting acks and other ground targets.

------------------

"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
    lkbrown1@tir.com    
 http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!

[Fishu]

TC guy in the tower looking around with RW, wouldn't be for bad if external view is lost..
Too hard to operate everything in a tank yourself already.
Besides, what does it matter if you see over the hill - in war you most probably put your scouts go over the hill first, then your tank.
That one thing that makes ambushes possible, are obstacles and trees, but do we have those, umm.. no.

[Replicant]

I would prefer not to have an external view but I think there is no choice.  For starters if I am trying to search for a tank and I can't see it then I might be going in entirely the other direction which could mean no tank battle at all (though good if you're attacking an undefended base)!  Removal of the vehicle to vehicle icons has been brilliant I must say which has made pnzr battles all the more fun.  There are still ways to attack where you cannot be viewed from external as I am sure most will agree.  

I would like to see an alternative colour for the pnzrs though as the sand colour sticks out like a sore thumb and you can spot it miles away.

Just my two pennies worth

'Nexx'

[Ripsnort]

In RL, we would have an observation a/c telling us the position of the enemy tank.  Or a grunt up on a hill.

This makes up for the lack of one.  I've yet to hit another tank from external view, so I don't see a problem with it.

[Pongo]

Cit is correct. You could never be as aware of you surrounding in any tank like you can here. A much improved TC view system would be way better. Then you could model the differences between the tanks in regards to their view scopes and visisibility and taskings for the commander. In real life these are very signifigant factors in the design of tanks. And it would be nice if the game reflected it. The Panzer IV was acctually one of the best of the early war tanks as regards visiblity and commander tasking. In the late war its contemporaries had closed the gap a great deal, but the 76mm t34s still had some problems in that way, and the buttoned up visiblility of the soviet tanks was still inferior.

[Ripsnort]

I guess  we  should remove all external views than, from bombers as well?

IMO, I like the way it is...if you're going to take it away from tanks, then take it away from all A/C as well.

[Fishu]

One pair of eyes and limited visibility caused by monitor.. can you hope for more in already blindfolded tank  

If they take external view, I must require for scouts that *I* can use without other player.

[Pongo]

Most of the crew men in a bomber have large glass windows too look out of at the open sky..
Most of the crewmen in tanks have tiny non movable peep holes to look through. I am mearly being honest, modeling a t34 with the same ability to visually search and aquite targets  PzIV would be like modeling a Pz IV with the speed of a T34. It is a very important factor in the capabilities of the tank. One which was almost unnoticed by the non german designers till mid 43.
Using an outside view from a tank should at least expose the vehicle to the Comander being killed or rounds getting in the vehicle and bouncing arround till they find something soft....

[spora]

Well, I never knew external views on Pzkw IV worked that way.  It certainly should be fixed, you should not be able to see behind obstacles.

I've always used the tank commanders position to orientate and spot targets.  How stupid...

[av8or]

i never new that you could do that huh no wonder i can't sneak up on anyone.

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by spora:
Well, I never knew external views on Pzkw IV worked that way.  It certainly should be fixed, you should not be able to see behind obstacles.

I've always used the tank commanders position to orientate and spot targets.  How stupid...

I dont use that because I can't *drive* from there or make turret move.
In real tank you can at least give your driver command to stop and gunner to move turret.. but in AH you should first be at the hatch, then stop by yourself and *then* move the turret too.. takes bit too long, when considers that theres no obstacles and you're in the open fightning for the every second. (one second is too much and when it comes to several seconds.. its *way* too much)