Author Topic: B-52  (Read 1439 times)

Offline oakranger

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B-52
« on: November 25, 2008, 05:47:02 PM »
OMG, I didn't think this huge bomber can pull moves like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQa4PpIkOZU&feature=related
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Offline JAGED

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Re: B-52
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2008, 05:48:27 PM »
I love the B52s...



Oh, wait... Nevermind... :D
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Offline Meatwad

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Re: B-52
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2008, 06:15:03 PM »
Rock Lobster!
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Offline NEARY

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Re: B-52
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2008, 06:44:41 PM »
i saw him make that turn and im like "oh toejam, that guy is dead"
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Offline eagl

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Re: B-52
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2008, 08:30:29 PM »
OMG, I didn't think this huge bomber can pull moves like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQa4PpIkOZU&feature=related

It can't.  That's why they're dead.
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Offline eagl

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Re: B-52
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2008, 08:56:01 PM »
The guy who posted that video on youtube commented that he thought the B-52 pilot must have been a superb stick and rudder pilot.  My opinion is that he was exactly the opposite.  He was a terrible pilot, and he had gotten away with a lot of stuff from pure dumb luck.  He was probably a buff pilot because his poor skills and terrible attitude were likely recognized in pilot training and that may have kept him out of a fighter cockpit.

I reached this conclusion from two things - First, several of the maneuvers are so inherently dangerous and abusive of the airframe that only a terrible pilot would routinely do them.  He must have had absolutely no concept that what he was doing was so horribly stupid.  Second, his absolute disregard for policy, procedures, and regulations points to the the kind of pilot who is unteachable.  Mediocre skills and an unteachable attitude does not equal good stick and rudder pilot in my book.

Considering his fate, it's almost a shame he didn't end up in fighters.  That way he would have only killed himself and it probably would have happened earlier in his career so our nation wouldn't have invested so much money in his training.

He must have had some innate ability as a pilot, but as a fighter pilot and experienced instructor pilot, I would rate him as a merely mediocre stick and rudder pilot with a dangerous know-it-all attitude.  These attitudes are mercilessly stomped out during training the second they are recognized, but it's obvious that sometimes a bad apple slips through.

If I sound harsh, well too bad.  Part of my job is ensuring our newest pilots don't end up like this guy and I have nothing good to say about him, his career, or the circumstances and decisions that led to the mishap (starting with him getting his wings in the first place).  I admit that it is 20/20 hindsight, but a pilot that poorly disciplined with that poor of a grasp of aerodynamics should have never graduated pilot training.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 08:57:57 PM by eagl »
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Offline Tarmac

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Re: B-52
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2008, 10:01:02 PM »
I work with a couple of B-52 guys and the scuttlebutt is that the pilot had a reputation for doing risky stupid stuff.  So much so that his crew refused to fly with him.  On the fatal flight, the squadron commander flew right seat with him to demonstrate his trust.  The story goes that the last words on the black box were the squadron commander saying something to the extent of "you squealing idiot, you killed us all."

That's the story.  Take it with a grain of salt, since it was told to me by pilots.  ;)

Offline oakranger

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Re: B-52
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2008, 10:01:52 PM »
Do you really think that the AF would let him fly that bomber like that.  If i was the CO of that base, i would told him to land that bird.    When i first saw that video, the only thing came in mind is the stress on them wings.
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: B-52
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2008, 02:56:16 AM »
I'm still a bit amazed that this particular pilot was allowed to stay behind the stick (yoke) long enough to end up like this.  Apparently, he was a real hotheat know-it-all, that was out to prove he should have been selected for fighters.  In a previous sortie, apparently he overstressed another -52's skin so badly that they replaced 500 or so rivets.

The sad thing, like eagl already said, was that he took 3 other people to their graves....where, had he been in a single seat stick, only his stupid arse would have bought the farm.
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: B-52
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2008, 03:09:07 AM »
Double post.
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: B-52
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2008, 03:15:58 AM »
I'm still a bit amazed that this particular pilot was allowed to stay behind the stick (yoke) long enough to end up like this.  Apparently, he was a real hotheat know-it-all, that was out to prove he should have been selected for fighters.  In a previous sortie, apparently he overstressed another -52's skin so badly that they replaced 500 or so rivets.

The sad thing, like eagl already said, was that he took 3 other people to their graves....where, had he been in a single seat stick, only his stupid arse would have bought the farm.

It does impress me a bit that the airframe didn't fail throughout any of those manuevers.  The resulting crash was due to low altitude stall.... these things happen when you get slow then radically alter your lift parameters.... ie tilt your wings perpendicular to the freaking ground at under 200 feet AGL and just under the

An EMPTY B52 has a T/W ratio of .73.....
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Offline deSelys

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Re: B-52
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2008, 03:17:05 AM »
Read the incident analysis here: it shows how human relationships can make well-designed procedures and regulations to fail.
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Offline DiabloTX

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Re: B-52
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2008, 03:19:38 AM »
eagl, what also was a factor, probably THE biggest factor, is the practice of "officer favoritism", something that is almost never talked about.  This particular pilot, according to discussions I've seen regarding this accident, had a long history of bucking the rules and regulations flying the BUFF's, but nothing was done.  I'm pretty sure it was the officer corps taking care of their own, which, I am not stating is something you do or condone, but I know you know what I am talking about.  I saw it all too often in the Navy and never understood how they expect to hold the enlisted personnel to a high standard and then turn around and do the opposite.  I know rank has it's privilege, but to not do anything about an officer who so clearly has no regard for flight rules and regulations ultimately led to the deaths of all onboard this flight.
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: B-52
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2008, 03:24:29 AM »
BBS is acting weird for me, sorry for the multiple post.

I'm still a bit amazed that this particular pilot was allowed to stay behind the stick (yoke) long enough to end up like this.  Apparently, he was a real hotheat know-it-all, that was out to prove he should have been selected for fighters.  In a previous sortie, apparently he overstressed another -52's skin so badly that they replaced 500 or so rivets.

The sad thing, like eagl already said, was that he took 3 other people to their graves....where, had he been in a single seat stick, only his stupid arse would have bought the farm.

It does impress me a bit that the airframe didn't fail throughout any of those manuevers.  The resulting crash was due to low altitude stall.... these things happen when you get slow then radically alter your lift parameters.... ie tilt your wings perpendicular to the freaking ground at under 200 feet AGL and just above the Vs for the aircraft....

An EMPTY B52 has a T/W ratio of .73..... meaning once you're in deep sht.... your boots aren't big enough to get out.
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Offline AWwrgwy

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Re: B-52
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2008, 08:26:25 AM »
I'm probably mistaken but I think the pilot was the squadron commander and, as shown in the clip, he had been doing things like this for some time.

I'm trying to find where I read the write up on the crash and pilot.  I'll be back if I can find it.


(there's always wiki....)


wrongway
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 08:33:59 AM by AWwrgwy »
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