Answer These Questions About Attacking Buffs.

[Downtown]

1. What is the furthest range you have been shot down by B-17s Defensive Guns?

2. What is the most number of attacking passes you have made on a lone B-17?

3. Have you ever been attacked by a bomber?

4. Discounting six attacks on B-17 what is your standard attack?

5. Have you ever been shot down in one good pass against a Bomber (High Angle head on or 10 o'clock attack?)

6. Would you prefer if buffs could survive multiple passes by fighters?

7. Do you feel bombers are too manuverable?

8. What change would you make so that people would still fly bombers, yet historical attacks against bombers met with more success.

9. Do you feel that fighters are disadvantage against bombers above 25k?

10. What do you feel is the best tactic in attacking a bomber?

11. Have you ever been shot down by a bomber when you felt that you had the bomber at an extreme disavantage? (I.E. Were above and well off to the side and been brought down at 1400 yards or greater)

12. Be fair, what compromise would be acceptable to Buff Pilots and Fighter Pilots?

==-==================================

I personally would prefer the ability to make 3 or 4 passes at a bomber, than to kill it in one pass.  Right now I feel that you can't make that many passes.

Right now I feel that fighters whose historic roll was to attack bombers at altitude are at an extreme disadvantage because they cannot manuver at 25, 30, or 35K with a bomber.  If you are fortunate enough to get above a bomber and make a high speed diving attack you have difficulty climbing back up and turning for a 2nd pass.  I know that the P-47 is supposed to have improved performance at 25K and above, yet I have been trounced by B-17s and B-26s at that altitude and above.  I can't catch them, and If I get above and ahead and I get lucky enough to turn at them, I will only get one pass.

Right now I feel that the increased range of the bombers guns, the manuverablity that seems unhampered at any altitude, and the poor performance of the fighters that high altitudes tilts the scale too far in favor of the buff.  I would like to see a decrease in either the range of the bombers guns or their manuverability brought more inline.  I would agree to an increase in bomber hardness also.

Maybe you have more comments, or questions, but I believe that bombers have too great an advantage.  We need to allow some advantage so that people will fly bombers, but not to the fact that bomber pilots attack fighters and return with multiple kills.  If a bomber is engaged with a fighter I want the bomber to have a reasonable chance to survive.  I want fighters to be able to manuver to make an attack.

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"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
    lkbrown1@tir.com    
 http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!

[jihad]

Bombers are fine as modeled,I say leave them alone!

[Cobra]

 

Originally posted by Downtown:
1. What is the furthest range you have been shot down by B-17s Defensive Guns?

800 yds.

2. What is the most number of attacking passes you have made on a lone B-17?

5 passes.  Ask Nomde <S> BTW...I ran him out of top, ball, and tail ammo.  No damage to me at all from any of those passes..I was in a Yak..I finally shot him down.  My passes were all at high speeds and I didn't linger for a 6 shot.  And I took my time setting up each subsequent pass.

3. Have you ever been attacked by a bomber?

Yes, by a B-26 when taking off from a capped field.

4. Discounting six attacks on B-17 what is your standard attack?

Go high above him and come straight down on him from 12 oclock high...Aim ahead of him in the dive...shoot for his left or right wing and try to take out those controls surfaces and/or wing in 1 pass.

5. Have you ever been shot down in one good pass against a Bomber (High Angle head on or 10 o'clock attack?)

Not that I recall....I usually get shot down if I loiter or make my dive too shallow and hang on his 6.  In other words...I make a mistake in my pass.

6. Would you prefer if buffs could survive multiple passes by fighters?

Yes absolutely.  

7. Do you feel bombers are too manuverable?

No

8. What change would you make so that people would still fly bombers, yet historical attacks against bombers met with more success.

None..I don't know if they need to meet with more success...the kill stats say they don't..the buffs get shot down alot!  (Check popeyes quote from the buff guns too tuff thread)

9. Do you feel that fighters are disadvantage against bombers above 25k?

That depends...if the fighter is climbing to meet instead of already perched..maybe (but that's not the buffs fault that the fighter chose to attack like that), but then again..a buff is ded meat at 25-27k IMO.  I will say make bombing a little more inaccurate from above 30k.

10. What do you feel is the best tactic in attacking a bomber?

High 12 attack and/or a belly attack.  Anything fast and with a hard angle.

11. Have you ever been shot down by a bomber when you felt that you had the bomber at an extreme disavantage? (I.E. Were above and well off to the side and been brought down at 1400 yards or greater)

No.  

12. Be fair, what compromise would be acceptable to Buff Pilots and Fighter Pilots?

I think the compromise has already been made.  I wouldn't change it.

==-==================================

 

[This message has been edited by Cobra (edited 07-24-2000).]

[JimBear]

1. What is the furthest range you have been shot down by B-17s Defensive Guns?
800 yards
2. What is the most number of attacking passes you have made on a lone B-17?
2
3. Have you ever been attacked by a bomber?
Yes, B-26
4. Discounting six attacks on B-17 what is your standard attack?
High dive at least from at least 1000yrds alt adv,rake it nose to tail

5. Have you ever been shot down in one good pass against a Bomber (High Angle head on or 10 o'clock attack?)
Yes <S>

6. Would you prefer if buffs could survive multiple passes by fighters?
They do now

7. Do you feel bombers are too manuverable?
No, Gen.Billy Mitchell looped B-26s to help instill confidence in his Aircrews with their plane. Bomber GUNNERS firing while at mulitiple G's now is something else

8. What change would you make so that people would still fly bombers, yet historical attacks against bombers met with more success.
Don't fly as a lone buff and have an escort  

9. Do you feel that fighters are disadvantage against bombers above 25k?
Not if they are flying smart and attacking from advantage

10. What do you feel is the best tactic in attacking a bomber?
Have a wingman and coordinate  
11. Have you ever been shot down by a bomber when you felt that you had the bomber at an extreme disavantage? (I.E. Were above and well off to the side and been brought down at 1400 yards or greater)
Yes. And after reviewing the film discovered that I lost sight and floundered around,or was straight and level long enuf to eat a couple dozen .50cal

12. Be fair, what compromise would be acceptable to Buff Pilots and Fighter Pilots?
Compromise to what?  increase the virtual armour for the buffs, weaken the hits generated by a particular planes ammo? not sure where that takes us. Maybe looking at max alt vs service ceiling of the current bombers? I have to admit that i dont like the "dogfighting" 26s but I do admire their skills at keeping wings and other dangly parts on, not to mention some folks inverted turret gunnery skills.. but ya know, at least against a buff I can pick the fight in that kind of situation, and if I dont get him Sundog will    

[RAM]

1. What is the furthest range you have been shot down by B-17s Defensive Guns?
1.6K, in a Fw190A8 in 1.0 version, when surpassing it, relative position to him, 9 o clock.

2. What is the most number of attacking passes you have made on a lone B-17?

Seven. And I have film on this. In a P51D , 7 perfect passes, the B17 was Very low and I came from very high. Steady and firm hits on right wing on all passes, and on the tail in 6th and 7th passes. Buff dead because vert. stabilizator  ripped off. THe damned thing was flying with 2 engines dead and smoking like a Betty.

3. Have you ever been attacked by a bomber?

Innumerable times, mostly by B26s but sometimes even by B17s.

4. Discounting six attacks on B-17 what is your standard attack?

win a 11 or 1 position, high, dive to attack and pullout. 25% times I get shot down in this kind of approach agaisnt B17s.Much more times I get VERY serious damage.

Against B26s I also do low level fast aproaches, pop up under his belly ,burst to the tail or wing, barrel roll and dive under him again.Roughly 40% of deaths in this kind of attack. And nearly all times I get a lot of damage.

5. Have you ever been shot down in one good pass against a Bomber (High Angle head on or 10 o'clock attack?)

Yes. see above.

6. Would you prefer if buffs could survive multiple passes by fighters?

I dont mind about its endurance to damage. They are 4 engined monsters. What I mind about is they super-accurate MGs.

7. Do you feel bombers are too manuverable?

The B26, for sure, yes.
The B17 maybe too but this is less problematic as only a madman would turnfight with it as it has no fixed forward firing weapons.

8. What change would you make so that people would still fly bombers, yet historical attacks against bombers met with more success.

turn down the uber acuraccy of the bomber's defensive weapons and improve their toughness a bit. Buff drivers would yell the hell outta this because they wont be able to raise 4 kill per sortie but if they learn to fly in close formation with their improved toughness they still will mean problems to fighters.

9. Do you feel that fighters are disadvantage against bombers above 25k?

Categorically ,yes. And I dont talk about Fw190A, but about Me109Gs and P38s.

10. What do you feel is the best tactic in attacking a bomber?

In a Fw190?...to turn away and let him think he is the king of the world. There is no such thing as a "good tactic" to attack a bomber, other than coordinated multiplane attacks. of course that is negated if the buff flies with a wingie.

Other good tactic is to fire the buffs from 1.2K with a F4U1-C. THere is a big chance that you do some damage  before he kills you. (yeah at 1.2K)

11. Have you ever been shot down by a bomber when you felt that you had the bomber at an extreme disavantage? (I.E. Were above and well off to the side and been brought down at 1400 yards or greater)

Innumerable high headon attacks, innumerable 11 and 1 o clock high approaches...and I can stay all day long.

12. Be fair, what compromise would be acceptable to Buff Pilots and Fighter Pilots?

Increase Buff toughness but turn down the uber accurate defensive fire.

Either that or you put a realistic Norden sight to make them have a 5% aiming and so we fighters can forget about them and let them fly in peace.


This is NOT a rant. I mean EVERYTHING I've said about this.

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-24-2000).]

[Pyro]

 

Originally posted by RAM:

win a 11 or 1 position, high, dive to attack and pullout. 25% times I get shot down in this kind of approach agaisnt B17s.

Wow, you have a 25% chance of being shot down on a perfect approach.  Geez, I see what you mean about the bombers being too good.  It must be even worse when you're making something less than the preferred attack.  The time you made 7 passes on a B-17 is really amazing.  Making nothing but your preferred attack, the odds of surviving 7 straight passes at a 25% loss rate per pass would be 1 in 16384.

I know that interjecting real documented data into a discussion like this is considered taboo, but bear with me.  After reading your advice that the best attack strategy for a Fw vs B-17 is to fly away and leave them alone, I looked up your Fw vs B-17 stats for the last few months.

Tour 4

ram has 23 kills and has been killed 2 times in the Fw 190A-8 against the B-17G.


Tour 5

ram has 4 kills and has been killed 0 times in the Fw 190A-8 against the B-17G.


Tour 6 (No kills or deaths A-8 vs B-17, A-5 vs B-17 used instead)

ram has 4 kills and has been killed 0 times in the Fw 190A-5 against the B-17G.

I now see what you mean.  With only 31 kills of B-17s, you got shot down twice!  Granted, those losses were a few months back, but still.  There's no way in hell a B-17 should be able to do that to you.  Something is obviously wrong if out of 31 kills, you got shot down, much less twice!  If I had that kind of atrocious loss rate, I wouldn't tangle with them either.  



------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

[JimBear]

Snorf!  Blort!!   hahhaha heeheehee  ROFLMAO

aww hell now i have to clean my screen (again)    

[RAM]

Pyro, you only show what is true. Since Tour3 I simply refuse to engage B17s unless I have an unchallenged altitude advantage on it or I can coordinate with a buddy. So you are nothing but supporting what I say, that the best attacking move to go against a B17 is to walk away and let him think he is Superman, or go and get him with one or two buddies...

I dont recall the last time I tried to kill a buff in formation with another.

I simply stopped to go against B17s alone or with less than 5K alt advantage since I was killed in a 11-o-clock semi head on attack in my 190A8 against a low level B17, back in the 1.1 version (was still old map then).

and still, I must say that when I go down ,some times the B17 goes down too, so I stay in the 190 all that I can to get the kill and THEN I jump.

So there are countless deaths there that arent credited to the B17 that killed me.

Sorry Pyro but scores dont tell here half the story. In fact they give a seriously differente image from me...if that was true then I am the bomber's scourge...

and for sure, I'm not.


[edit]the 7 passes on the B17 were done in a P51 diving from 15K to a B17 at 5K driven by a newbie that even didnt know to man stations. It is in the film too, his comments show clearly that he didnt know how to bear guns on me.

So again, the story is quite different that what appears to be.

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-24-2000).]

[Downtown]

Tour 6:
Downtown has 6 kills and has been killed 4 times against the B-17G.  I believe for every kill I got, the B-17 got me too.  I am suprised to see I have survived twice.

Downtown has 2 kills and has been killed 3 times against the B-26B.

Tour 5:
Downtown has 7 kills and has been killed 8 times against the B-26B.

Downtown has 14 kills and has been killed 13 times against the B-17G.


Tour 4:

Downtown has 4 kills and has been killed 4 times against the B-17G.

Downtown has 3 kills and has been killed 1 time against the B-26B.


As you can see Pyro, I am not doing that well.  I know that I struggle to get above a bomber, I struggle to catch them when I am climbing, if I make an attacking pass I ususally don't get a second chance.  I would say I have success when another plane draws the fire of a bomber and I get to dive in and attack.  On a one on one the best I can do is a draw, and it depends on who bails first.

I know I have tried all sorts of attacks and so far what appears to work the best for me is to get about 1400 yards away and off to the 9 or 11 o'clock (1 or 3 o'clock works too) and HOPE that the spray and pray doesn't bring me down.

I really am trying to have a reasonable discussion.  It just seems to me that I can't climb up to catch a bomber, I can't climb above a bomber, I can't turn to attack a bomber, I can't turn with a bomber, I can't make more than one pass at a bomber, I do attacks where my speed exceeds 400 IAS and I get shot down by bombers.  Other folks seem to be having the same problems.  If it was just me, I would say, hey it's just me, but I have been attacked by bombers, and I have seen people drop their bombs and head for furballs, to attack fighters.

I am hoping for a reasonable original idea that will be acceptable to all parties.  Regardless I would like to see buff hardness increased.

------------------

"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
    lkbrown1@tir.com    
 http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!

[Pavel]

1. What is the furthest range you have been shot down by B-17s Defensive Guns?
About 1200 yards (my FE) on a dead six attack.  

2. What is the most number of attacking passes you have made on a lone B-17?
About half a dozen, including 'bad' passes where I elected to abort.  

3. Have you ever been attacked by a bomber?
Only when in another bomber.   I don't have much problem, either tactically or phylosophically, with guys ackstarring or bomber capping in the main arena- after all the main is just a big goofy tongue-in-cheek colosseum where ten drunks stumble  into a pile o' dirt and magically rebuild the ack as well as change the allegiance of an airfield.  
4. What is your standard attack?
Given opportunity, I'll be 3000 yards above the bomber (either type) before I begin to even plan a pass.  I then dead-reckon were he'll be in about a dozen seconds and  bee-line a 45-60 degree dive for that anticipated intersection.  I don't try and saddle up or otherwise correct if I misjudge- I simply extend and repeat as necessary.

5. Have you ever been shot down in one good pass against a Bomber?
I'm never been seriously damaged (beyond my ability to land the aircraft) during a good pass as described in #4 above.

6. Would you prefer if buffs could survive multiple passes by fighters?
I've no problem with buffs surviving multiple passes.   All the B17s that returned in RL survived at least one pass.

7. Do you feel bombers are too manuverable?
No.

8. What change would you make so that people would still fly bombers, yet historical attacks against bombers met with more success.
I wouldn't make any change in the main arena. If the current model is indeed handicapped for playability, I would give CMs the option of using a more historical model for scenarios.

9. Do you feel that fighters are disadvantage against bombers above 25k?
I used to go up and get 30+K bombers, but decided it wasn't worth my time. Did real WWII bombers operate at those altitudes?  If not, the real issue regarding high bombers should be how to make bombing ineffective at those altitudes.

10. What do you feel is the best tactic in attacking a bomber?
Rapid closure combined with some angles, both vertical and horizontal.  Exercise patience. Who's in charge of this encounter anyway?
I can't remember the last time a bomber shot me down except when circumstances (i.e. fuel, escorts, wife had dinner ready, etc) forced me to make a hasty attack I wouldn't have made otherwise.

11. Have you ever been shot down by a bomber when you felt that you had the bomber at an extreme disavantage? (I.E. Were above and well off to the side and been brought down at 1400 yards or greater)
Definately not.

12. Be fair, what compromise would be acceptable to Buff Pilots and Fighter Pilots?
I see those who fly mostly fighters ranting about the bomber being too tough and those who fly mostly bombers griping how the fighters have it their way- while those who fly a mix believe it's pretty fair.  If I were seeking a good compromise, I'd seek the above result- therefore I conclude the current compromise is close to ideal.  

[Soda]

Oh, A Test!  Let's see how I do
-----------------------------

1. What is the furthest range you have been shot down by B-17s Defensive Guns?

-D1.1  flew absolutely straight and level on his 6 hoping he didn't notice me.  Wrong.  Netlag did the rest.

2. What is the most number of attacking passes you have made on a lone B-17?

-5, Didn't have a good pass on him so I ended up doing a lot of scissor type passes.  My fault for not setting up the attack correctly.

3. Have you ever been attacked by a bomber?

-B26's all the time.  It's a little annoying, but I'll admit I've done it too.  Even once went M16 hunting with my belly guns in a B17, not recommended.

4. Discounting six attacks on B-17 what is your standard attack?

-Anything from a very high angle with lots of closure.  Often trying to get across gun fire arcs quickly so that the defender has to switch gunner positions to get a shot.

5. Have you ever been shot down in one good pass against a Bomber (High Angle head on or 10 o'clock attack?)

-Nope, I have shot down a bomber or two this way though.. even had them explode from head-on passes.  The HO pass is very effective if you do it off centre (say 1 or 11 oclock).  Again, lots of closure and angle to be successful.

6. Would you prefer if buffs could survive multiple passes by fighters?

-I think they can if the gunner pays attention and makes the job hard for the attacker.  2 bombers together are pretty fearsome, but a lone one is not nearly as tough.  Fighter cover for even a lone bomber makes the job near impossible.  A bomber that turns to not allow you the shot (rather than fly straight and level towards target) is a really tough prospect since you have troubles setting up the attack.

7. Do you feel bombers are too manuverable?

-I could maybe agree.  Where some of the fighters really wallow around above 25K, the bombers don't seem as affected.  Then again, I rarely see strato bombers lately, lots of bombers under 5K alt... weird.  A bomber under 5K is a Xmas present.

8. What change would you make so that people would still fly bombers, yet historical attacks against bombers met with more success.

-As long as I set a bomber attack up, I'm like 19 kills vs deaths 2 this tour.  Those 2 deaths probably came from where I rushed the attack.  I think bombers flying in pairs would help them survive better.  Alone a bomber is still in trouble against a fighter in my opinion (and the numbers point that way)

9. Do you feel that fighters are disadvantage against bombers above 25k?

-Yeah, a little, then again bombing something from over 25K is a little like the lottery now, sometime you get hits, sometime not.  Not as many bombers up that high anymore.

10. What do you feel is the best tactic in attacking a bomber?

-High closure speed and crossing angles.  Never attack co-alt... climb above and get up a nice head of steam.  then attack so that you cross firing angles quickly and get your shots in fast.  Egress and try again as soon as you've blown your advantage.  Know where the highest concentrations of defensive guns are and stay away from those angles.

11. Have you ever been shot down by a bomber when you felt that you had the bomber at an extreme disavantage? (I.E. Were above and well off to the side and been brought down at 1400 yards or greater)

-Rarely, been pinged and taken damage, but usually outside of D1.4 it's pretty safe if you aren't flying absolutely straight and level.  It has happened though, and probably should.  A .50 cal to the side of the cockpit would leave an aweful wound.

12. Be fair, what compromise would be acceptable to Buff Pilots and Fighter Pilots?

-no sure, I think a lone bomber is pretty much a present right now, one that has even one partner aircraft is pretty tough.  I've watched some of the most beautiful 10 bomber raids on HQ's where many/most of the bombers escape.  The key was 1 or 2 defensive P51's flying alongside to mess up your attacks.  But that was the best part... making me work for a kill.

----------------------------

Soda
The Wrecking Crew

[Fishu]

1. What is the furthest range you have been shot down by B-17s Defensive Guns?
I haven't been shot down much by B-17s.. but I have shot down C.205 with small bursts from 1.5k behind me   (chop chop, wing off)

2. What is the most number of attacking passes you have made on a lone B-17?
Three passes

3. Have you ever been attacked by a bomber?
Ackstars? sure!
I wan't to see someone do that in real life and survive as good as those ackstar things do. (not even gunboat 17 did enough well)

4. Discounting six attacks on B-17 what is your standard attack?
High and fast, or surprise element, if can't afford high and fast.

5. Have you ever been shot down in one good pass against a Bomber (High Angle head on or 10 o'clock attack?)
Does this include collision? no others counted.

6. Would you prefer if buffs could survive multiple passes by fighters
If defensive armament accuracy/power is decreased to more realistic levels, why not.

7. Do you feel bombers are too manuverable?
Sure thing, heavy buff circles better than P-47 or Fw190. (not to mention that too much banking in B-17 can cause structural failure)

9. Do you feel that fighters are disadvantage against bombers above 25k?
Allies no, Axis yes. (big wonder..)

10. What do you feel is the best tactic in attacking a bomber?
Read answer #4 again.

11. Have you ever been shot down by a bomber when you felt that you had the bomber at an extreme disavantage? (I.E. Were above and well off to the side and been brought down at 1400 yards or greater)
Hmm.. no, only lost wingtip and survived home.

12. Be fair, what compromise would be acceptable to Buff Pilots and Fighter Pilots?
Model engine overheating so that buffs couldnt reach higher altitudes than they did operate in real life..
Do something for that fuel multiplier for planes with low gas, so that those wouldn't run out of gas when chasing B-29s

[Spatula]

1. What is the furthest range you have been shot down by B-17s Defensive Guns?

D1.4

2. What is the most number of attacking passes you have made on a lone B-17?

4

3. Have you ever been attacked by a bomber?

yip, b26, was hilarious   was lmao

4. Discounting six attacks on B-17 what is your standard attack?

High-speed downward slash from 5oc and then rev and come back on the 7oc. B-26s i get comming straight down on them, or under the belly.

5. Have you ever been shot down in one good pass against a Bomber (High Angle head on or 10 o'clock attack?)

Once i think.

6. Would you prefer if buffs could survive multiple passes by fighters?

If the lasers on them were toned down, yes.

7. Do you feel bombers are too manuverable?

B-17 no, b26 not sure.

8. What change would you make so that people would still fly bombers, yet historical attacks against bombers met with more success.

De-tune the laser guided bullets and make them tuffer.

9. Do you feel that fighters are disadvantage against bombers above 25k?

Very much so.

10. What do you feel is the best tactic in attacking a bomber?

Gang up on em.

11. Have you ever been shot down by a bomber when you felt that you had the bomber at an extreme disavantage? (I.E. Were above and well off to the side and been brought down at 1400 yards or greater)

all the fekin time.

12. Be fair, what compromise would be acceptable to Buff Pilots and Fighter Pilots?

Make the bullets non-homing, but increase the tuffness.


     =Spatula=
=357th Pony Express=

[Tac]

1. What is the furthest range you have been shot down by B-17s Defensive Guns?

d1.6 (2 pings BEWM)

2. What is the most number of attacking passes you have made on a lone B-17?

Two. And die on the second on, even when attacking at high speed/high angle. Freaking superguns.

3. Have you ever been attacked by a bomber?

Hell yeah. Got 3 films of it even. Once they drop the bombs they become airborne AAA

4. Discounting six attacks on B-17 what is your standard attack?

From the low 2 cloc and low 10 cloc.

5. Have you ever been shot down in one good pass against a Bomber (High Angle head on or 10 o'clock attack?)

8 out of 10 times.

6. Would you prefer if buffs could survive multiple passes by fighters?

Of course. But I wont have it to have a buff eat a LOT of ammo into one point in its wing. Concentrated fire should do its thing when compared to spraying the buff.

7. Do you feel bombers are too manuverable?

Yes. A buff can do amazing things with its rudder. roll/pitch is ok.

8. What change would you make so that people would still fly bombers, yet historical attacks against bombers met with more success.

I would make the buffs have some stronger armor (yet have weak points like wings and fuel tanks), and bring the buff guns to what they were before they changed the .50's to those turbolasers.

9. Do you feel that fighters are disadvantage against bombers above 25k?

Always

10. What do you feel is the best tactic in attacking a bomber?

Ideally? Have someone distract the gunner while you make your pass. Realistically? hit it in its belly. If I find myself above the BUFF ill dive on it and KEEP shooting until it either blows or I ram it.

11. Have you ever been shot down by a bomber when you felt that you had the bomber at an extreme disavantage? (I.E. Were above and well off to the side and been brought down at 1400 yards or greater)


Oh yes. When they turn ALL the friggin otto gunners magically decide to shoot at the same point in space. Unholy!

12. Be fair, what compromise would be acceptable to Buff Pilots and Fighter Pilots?

Make the guns on the buffs be as they were before they became turbolasers, make the buffs eat a lot of lead (except in weak points), and make the otto guns to fire with some randomness (aka, in a 15 degree cone where the gunner is aiming).

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Tac:
and make the otto guns to fire with some randomness (aka, in a 15 degree cone where the gunner is aiming).

That is a damned good idea, Tac!!!