Cost of gun control?

[Dago]

See Rule #4

[Timofei]

I think everyone should carry a gun. ,

Just curious; what kind of guns everyone should be able to carry:
1. Single shot guns
2. Semi-automatic guns
3. Full automatic guns (subrmachine guns, miniguns etc.)
4. Grenade launchers, fragmentation bombs, flame-throwers, light artillery.
5. Nerve gas, bio weapons, radioactive materials.

I'm really interested to hear the opinions of the gun nuts.

(I guess this is not "politics" thread since it is not closed by now.)

[Chalenge]

Just curious; what kind of guns everyone should be able to carry:
1. Single shot guns
2. Semi-automatic guns
3. Full automatic guns (subrmachine guns, miniguns etc.)
4. Grenade launchers, fragmentation bombs, flame-throwers, light artillery.
5. Nerve gas, bio weapons, radioactive materials.

I'm really interested to hear the opinions of the gun nuts.

(I guess this is not "politics" thread since it is not closed by now.)

I like how you put that 'gun nuts.' I guess I should refer to you as a 'bedwetter' and ignore the rest of your question.

[Skuzzy]

Maybe the "guns" topic should be eliminated as well?  After only two pages it has devolved into name calling.

Next person to do it will get banned for a month (if you have been banned before, then it will be permanent).  Now, let's see if you can really have a respectful discussion about this topic, without dragging politics into it.

Everyone has been warned.  Carry on.

[wrag]

dang it i don't think i broke rule 14, i tried to word it nicely, but anyway, gun control is needed, too many gun crimes so that needs to change so responsible people can enjoy them

and plaxico needs to get his act together, he can afford a body guard, athletes need to send a good message to kids and act like they are the role models that they are supposed to be

I disagree re MORE gun control.  We have thousands of gun control laws on the books now.  All the gun control laws do is DISARM people that obey the law.

AND IMHO those are the ones we want to arm because they will follow reasonable laws.

You are the kind of person the Brady people look at and start drooling.

IMHO There is NO SUCH thing as REASONABLE gun control when it comes to restricting the rights of law abiding people.

Washington D.C. had the strictest gun laws in the U.S. and they had the highest violence and murder rate in the nation.

Want to try something?  Look at the crime statistics by the FBI and see where all the crime is.

Pretty sure you will find it's in all the cities with the strict gun control in place.  Why is that?  Because the good guys, the ones that believe in the law, are disarmed and easier prey!

Criminals are criminals because they have no, or very little, respect for the law.

[CAVPFCDD]

I disagree re MORE gun control.  We have thousands of gun control laws on the books now.  All the gun control laws do is DISARM people that obey the law.

AND IMHO those are the ones we want to arm because they will follow reasonable laws.

You are the kind of person the Brady people look at and start drooling.

IMHO There is NO SUCH thing as REASONABLE gun control when it comes to restricting the rights of law abiding people.

Washington D.C. had the strictest gun laws in the U.S. and they had the highest violence and murder rate in the nation.

Want to try something?  Look at the crime statistics by the FBI and see where all the crime is.

Pretty sure you will find it's in all the cities with the strict gun control in place.  Why is that?  Because the good guys, the ones that believe in the law, are disarmed and easier prey!

Criminals are criminals because they have no, or very little, respect for the law.

well, like i said responsible people should be able to have them

and maybe youre right, maybe more gun control won't solve it, but they need to devise something to help get guns out of criminals, just this last week in st. petersburg two clerks, in two different stores were shot and robbed on two consecutive nights (they actually were even cousins). Then yesterday in Plant City, about an hour away, a wanted murderer was spotted by detectives and a shoot out insued in which an innocent bystander was killed. The guy who was wanted had an ak-47 and a hand gun. I mean it's just stories like that that kill me, innocent people being affected. There is a tooooon of gun crimes in Florida because guns are fairly easy to obtain here, something needs to be done, and like i said maybe more gun control won't do it, but there needs to be a solution.

Solving the gun issue needs to be done somehow while not affecting the 2nd amendment, right now keeping guns out of the hands of criminals is failing about as badly as the war on drugs.

[Gaidin]

well, like i said responsible people should be able to have them

and maybe youre right, maybe more gun control won't solve it, but they need to devise something to help get guns out of criminals, just this last week in st. petersburg two clerks, in two different stores were shot and robbed on two consecutive nights (they actually were even cousins). Then yesterday in Plant City, about an hour away, a wanted murderer was spotted by detectives and a shoot out insued in which an innocent bystander was killed. The guy who was wanted had an ak-47 and a hand gun. I mean it's just stories like that that kill me, innocent people being affected. There is a tooooon of gun crimes in Florida because guns are fairly easy to obtain here, something needs to be done, and like i said maybe more gun control won't do it, but there needs to be a solution.

Solving the gun issue needs to be done somehow while not affecting the 2nd amendment, right now keeping guns out of the hands of criminals is failing about as badly as the war on drugs.

The instances you cited are the exact reason more gun laws won't work.  The criminal doesn't care about the law, therefore he will have guns no matter what the law says.  Now, if his/her intended victims are law abiding citizens who have been stripped of there guns through laws, then its easy for him to commit his crimes.  He doesnt have to worry if the person he is about to rob can defend himself.  If the law abiding citizens do carry guns, then he has to worry when he decides to commit a crime if he will come out of the encounter alive.

There have been criminals since the beginning of time, and there always will be.  There has also never been any study that I know of where gun laws have lowered over all crime rate.  Criminals will always find a weapon of some sort, but as for me I want to be carrying the pistol regardless of what weapon he does find.

Just my .02

[wrag]

well, like i said responsible people should be able to have them

and maybe youre right, maybe more gun control won't solve it, but they need to devise something to help get guns out of criminals, just this last week in st. petersburg two clerks, in two different stores were shot and robbed on two consecutive nights (they actually were even cousins). Then yesterday in Plant City, about an hour away, a wanted murderer was spotted by detectives and a shoot out insued in which an innocent bystander was killed. The guy who was wanted had an ak-47 and a hand gun. I mean it's just stories like that that kill me, innocent people being affected. There is a tooooon of gun crimes in Florida because guns are fairly easy to obtain here, something needs to be done, and like i said maybe more gun control won't do it, but there needs to be a solution.

Solving the gun issue needs to be done somehow while not affecting the 2nd amendment, right now keeping guns out of the hands of criminals is failing about as badly as the war on drugs.

And it will keep failing IMHO.

Also I'm betting the ton of gun crimes in Florida is LESS then in states and cities where guns are NOT so easily obtainable!

If the guy really had an AK-47 then he was BREAKING some serious laws!  AK-47 is illegal IIRC as it's capable of full auto operations.  AND VERY difficult to obtain without a class III license.

The actual weapon used is of little concern here.  It's what the criminal did with it that is the problem.

PUNISH the criminal not the law abiding!

As to doing something hmmm.... MORE INNOCENT people are KILLED by automobiles then by firearms AND MORE INNOCENT people are KILLED by medical misadventure then by firearms!

So perhaps we should change our focus to cars and doctors and leave OUR RIGHT to defend ourselves ALONE.

[wrag]

Maybe the "guns" topic should be eliminated as well?  After only two pages it has devolved into name calling.

Next person to do it will get banned for a month (if you have been banned before, then it will be permanent).  Now, let's see if you can really have a respectful discussion about this topic, without dragging politics into it.

Everyone has been warned.  Carry on.

<Looking very carefully through his post for name calling>

wait!  I rarely use any name calling in post on this BBS so?

Guess I'm safe?

[CAVPFCDD]

The instances you cited are the exact reason more gun laws won't work.  The criminal doesn't care about the law, therefore he will have guns no matter what the law says.  Now, if his/her intended victims are law abiding citizens who have been stripped of there guns through laws, then its easy for him to commit his crimes.  He doesnt have to worry if the person he is about to rob can defend himself.  If the law abiding citizens do carry guns, then he has to worry when he decides to commit a crime if he will come out of the encounter alive.

i understand everything you're saying and it all makes sense, but in at least the instances i said, all the people weren't ready for it and were shot so fast they didn't even know what happened, so being armed wouldn't really wouldn't have helped.

If the guy really had an AK-47 then he was BREAKING some serious laws!  AK-47 is illegal IIRC as it's capable of full auto operations.  AND VERY difficult to obtain without a class III license.

The actual weapon used is of little concern here.  It's what the criminal did with it that is the problem.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article928233.ece  this is the story, it just says assualt rifle but i had seen and read from other sources that it was an ak-47.


and this is the st petersburg shootings of the two clerks http://www.abcactionnews.com/mostpopular/story/Police-Store-shootings-in-St-Petersburg-related/w_HIJEszm0Wg6t6gwxLxpw.cspx

unfortunatly things like this happen on basically a daily basis around here.

[Rich46yo]

well aside from messing up quoting me you didnt read what i said, there needs to be more control since the gun crimes here happen all too frequently, i think responsible people should be allowed to own them, the only problem with that too is that people are people, even regular people snap, but thats just the chance you take.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

As for plaxico i had said something similar to you in my first post, he can afford a body guard and he used to have a concealed weapons permit, he should have had one or the other, and he shouldn't have a gun at all because he's suppposed to be a role model.


*edit* lol sorry man i guess you just misspelled my name, the quoting changes p buress's name (didn't want to spell it out) for some reason, like its a curse or something

Nope I thought your post was pro-gun control. Try reading it from my perspective.

dang it i don't think i broke rule 14, i tried to word it nicely, but anyway, gun control is needed, too many gun crimes so that needs to change so responsible people can enjoy them

The thing that gets me is that many people think that Govt. and the Police can protect you and the "thing" really is that we cant. We try, but lets face it, the odds are much bigger we'll be writing the report on you instead of just happening upon your on view crime.

And to make it even worse I think many people believe there is "good in everybody" and we in the biz know there are a lot of criminals with no good in them at all and your only chance with them is in using superior force. I'm sorry about that but its a hard ball world.

And terrorism? Like India? We, the Police, would be up the creek without a paddle so where would that leave you? Were pretty good at chasing gangs around the block but rifle teams? with Ranger level infantry training? That know how to move together and shoot? And have no fear of death? Ask any Policeman/veteran type what kind of chance we'd have in stopping them before they killed all kinds of people. We have a hard enough time with untrained bank robbers shooting up a street or high school kids shooting up a school. Military trained rifle teams are on a completely different level.

Anyway, sorry if I misread your post and/or intent Cav.

[Chalenge]

Maybe the "guns" topic should be eliminated as well?  After only two pages it has devolved into name calling.

Next person to do it will get banned for a month (if you have been banned before, then it will be permanent).  Now, let's see if you can really have a respectful discussion about this topic, without dragging politics into it.

Everyone has been warned.  Carry on.

Sorry Skuzzy thats exactly what I was trying to point out and stepped in it myself.

[Masherbrum]

dang it i don't think i broke rule 14, i tried to word it nicely, but anyway, gun control is needed, too many gun crimes so that needs to change so responsible people can enjoy them

and plaxico needs to get his act together, he can afford a body guard, athletes need to send a good message to kids and act like they are the role models that they are supposed to be

I pray to God that you aren't this naive.    What is a moron who cut class repeated repeatedly and now shot himself, after his CCW permit expired in March, going to "teach a kid"?   I'll tell you:  "Some athletes are best left allowing other fellow peers to teach."   

Randy Moss is expected "to teach"?   Dexter Manley?  Ricky Williams?  Michael Irvin?   The Vick brothers?   OJ? 

Spitting 101 - Instructor Roberto Alomar
Bat Throwing 101 - Delmon Young
Gun Safety 101 - Plaxico Burress and the "ATF Agent"
Line Cutting 101 - Dexter Manley and Michael Irvin
How to get away with Murder 101 - Randy Moss and OJ
Dogfighting 101 -  Michael Vick and not Chuck Yeager
Pot 101 - Ricky Williams

Come on.   

[Angus]

Out of curiousity, - since it seems to be some folks saviour to be able to carry a gun, - what is there so terrible and commonly abroad to make that a necessity?

[CAVPFCDD]

I pray to God that you aren't this naive.    What is a moron who cut class repeated repeatedly and now shot himself, after his CCW permit expired in March, going to "teach a kid"?   I'll tell you:  "Some athletes are best left allowing other fellow peers to teach."  

Randy Moss is expected "to teach"?   Dexter Manley?  Ricky Williams?  Michael Irvin?   The Vick brothers?   OJ? 

Spitting 101 - Instructor Roberto Alomar
Bat Throwing 101 - Delmon Young
Gun Safety 101 - Plaxico Burress and the "ATF Agent"
Line Cutting 101 - Dexter Manley and Michael Irvin
How to get away with Murder 101 - Randy Moss and OJ
Dogfighting 101 -  Michael Vick and not Chuck Yeager
Pot 101 - Ricky Williams

Come on.  

do you think i'm a total moron, it's pretty insulting that you assume that i believe he's the first athlete to do anything wrong. I think they SHOULD be role models since kids look up to them and for the most part grow up striving to be athletes, they should set good examples. They oblivously don't set good examples all the time and alot of them are idiots. If you're in a postion of power like that I believe you should try and do good, as alot of athletes do.