Cost of gun control?

[Masherbrum]

do you think i'm a total moron, it's pretty insulting that you assume that i believe he's the first athlete to do anything wrong. I think they SHOULD be role models since kids look up to them and for the most part grow up striving to be athletes, they should set good examples. They oblivously don't set good examples all the time and alot of them are idiots. If you're in a postion of power like that I believe you should try and do good, as alot of athletes do.

Family and Teachers should be the ONLY "role models".   

I never insulted anyone.   

[wrag]

i understand everything you're saying and it all makes sense, but in at least the instances i said, all the people weren't ready for it and were shot so fast they didn't even know what happened, so being armed wouldn't really wouldn't have helped.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article928233.ece  this is the story, it just says assualt rifle but i had seen and read from other sources that it was an ak-47.


and this is the st petersburg shootings of the two clerks http://www.abcactionnews.com/mostpopular/story/Police-Store-shootings-in-St-Petersburg-related/w_HIJEszm0Wg6t6gwxLxpw.cspx

unfortunatly things like this happen on basically a daily basis around here.

Then the sources that claim it was an AK-47 are not telling the truth?  Or they're telling the truth, SEVERAL GUN LAWS were broken by this criminal, and how would another such gun law make any difference?

Basically?  Please Clarify that......

Daily basis?  This sort of thing is going on all over the world!  Some places are way WORSE IMHO.  Try living in the Congo or one of those other warring African nations?  Or the Palestine/Israel border?  Or Chechnya?

IMHO much of the problem is people that refuse to live in the REAL world.  Hmmm think on this....

"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of
folly, is to fill the world with fools."
Herbert Spencer (1820-1903)
English philosopher

I think Rich46yo nailed it.  This is the REAL world, and in it there are people that only one word will fit. 

EVIL.

You want it to stop?

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of
vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
W. R. Inge (1860-1954)
Dean of St. Paul's, London

How do you stop someone that just doesn't care?

Perhaps this guy was on to something....

"The generality of men are naturally apt to be swayed by fear
rather than reverence, and to refrain from evil rather because
of the punishment that it brings than because of its own
foulness."
Aristotle (384-322 bc)
Greek philosopher

[wrag]

Out of curiousity, - since it seems to be some folks saviour to be able to carry a gun, - what is there so terrible and commonly abroad to make that a necessity?

Not sure I fully understand the question?

necessity?  Think we need to discuss this on a much DEEPER level?

Because we can?

It's our right.

[CAVPFCDD]

Here ya go wrag

ak 47 http://plantcity2.tbo.com/content/2008/dec/06/plant-city-man-denied-bail-day-after-manhunt/

ak 47 http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jwL0j4MxBQ_kmyEXqgQgQJhiPwnQD94SMUM80

so i guess the other article decided to only say assualt rifle

[wrag]

Here ya go wrag

ak 47 http://plantcity2.tbo.com/content/2008/dec/06/plant-city-man-denied-bail-day-after-manhunt/

ak 47 http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jwL0j4MxBQ_kmyEXqgQgQJhiPwnQD94SMUM80

so i guess the other article decided to only say assualt rifle

So you understand, I was not questioning you or what you said.  I do however question the reporters.

Again IIRC the AK-47 is illegal to own without a class III license as it is full auto capable.

So either the reporters don't know what they're talking about or the criminal broke MANY gun laws including the Federal law against owning full auto weapons!

[CAVPFCDD]

So you understand, I was not questioning you or what you said.  I do however question the reporters.

yeah i know i wanted to find it to show you, and to make sure I'm not crazy either lol.

[Dago]

So you understand, I was not questioning you or what you said.  I do however question the reporters.

Again IIRC the AK-47 is illegal to own without a class III license as it is full auto capable.

So either the reporters don't know what they're talking about or the criminal broke MANY gun laws including the Federal law against owning full auto weapons!

There are plenty of AK-47s that are semi-auto only.   The overwhelming majority of them in the USA are semi-auto only.

[Chalenge]

Out of curiousity, - since it seems to be some folks saviour to be able to carry a gun, - what is there so terrible and commonly abroad to make that a necessity?

Its called 'being a victim' when you dont have a gun. Some people love being a victim and look for excuses to be a victim. Other people dont like being a victim and pack heat. Those in the middle try to ignore the fact that there might be a situation one day when they will become a victim so they can avoid packing heat. Im betting one group in particular has the best chance of avoiding Darwins list of endangered species and thats why (one reason) I carry a gun.

I also believe as a citizen it is our duty to remain vigilant and assure that our loved ones are protected by well stocked and supplied National Guard Armories and the Guard unit itself within each individual State so that our own government cannot force tyranny upon us. Otherwise the right to bear arms will be taken from us by an overwhelming force.

[FLOTSOM]

this is just how difficult it is for anyone with a semiautomatic AK-47 to get a full auto.

http://www.hackcanada.com/ice3/misc/ak47mod.txt

so as you see getting the weapon is the most difficult part of the process. you can find this type of modification information on virtually any semiautomatic firearm. its all right here on the web if your willing to take the time to look.

just because the one the guy had was full auto at the time doesn't mean he bought it that way.

unfortunately its not the guns that are to easy to get, its the information. you can look up and download the chemical composition of almost every explosive in use in the world today. this includes most military grades.

if one person figures out how to convert his weapon to full auto, but doesn't have the intardnet to brag it to the world, then how many people can he actually tell how to do it? the number of illegally converted weapons would be far less if the information wasn't so easily gotten by the masses.

hell you can actually go to your neighborhood library to get almost any information on weapons manufacture that may peak your interest.

there was a saying that i heard as a child that rings true in every aspect of civilization and laws

"locks only keep honest people honest"

make as many laws as you want, a person with criminal or evil intent in his heart doesn't care if he is breaking one or one hundred of them. how many criminals have you ever heard of that actually took the time to pre-read the laws in advance of committing a crime. at what point down the list of laws he intends to violate does he finally say, oh wow well number 377 is just one to many, i better go get a day job.

the worse the consequences he is risking at breaking any given law just translates into the higher the chances are that he will kill his victim in order to leave no witnesses. if he is gonna get 20 years for having the gun whats the big deal if he gets 25 for shooting someone with it?

coming to this conversation with what i shall describe as a colorful back ground i can tell you this for a fact. if a person is known to be armed that person is less likely to be a victim. criminals are generally looking for the EASY score, not the one that shoots back.

now yes people who have weapons do get victimized from time to time, but it is much less often compared to those who are unarmed. yes guns do get stolen, but if you look into those types of cases the homes were broken into when the person was not home. the criminal wanted the weapons but doesn't want the risk of taking on the gun owner.

how many guns store have you heard of being held up? now how many corner stores. why do you think that is?

having rational gun control boils down to properly storing them so stealing them becomes much harder, and properly educating those who will own them to prevent accidents.

taking them away from people who will obey the laws only creates a situation that helps guarantee that only the criminal will be armed.

FLOTSOM

[Gman]

I never understood the whole "full auto" fear thing from law enforcement.  Who cares if a rifle is f/a or just semi auto. It's not really any more dangerous in full auto then in semi, and in fact, in the hands of an amateur, it's LESS dangerous in f/a than semi.

FYI there are dozens of locally made AK47 variants in the USA, and we here in Canada can get the Czech VZ58 and CZ858's, and to my knowledge, unless you are a convicted felon in the US, owning one is the same in many states as just another rifle, and rightly so.

[vorticon]

I never understood the whole "full auto" fear thing from law enforcement.  Who cares if a rifle is f/a or just semi auto. It's not really any more dangerous in full auto then in semi, and in fact, in the hands of an amateur, it's LESS dangerous in f/a than semi.

now that depends on whether or not you are the intended target.

[FLOTSOM]

I never understood the whole "full auto" fear thing from law enforcement.  Who cares if a rifle is f/a or just semi auto. It's not really any more dangerous in full auto then in semi, and in fact, in the hands of an amateur, it's LESS dangerous in f/a than semi.

well my assumption would be that instead of pulling the trigger once and hitting one maybe two people with a single bullet, someone pulling the trigger once with a fully automatic sprays 30 rounds into a small area and hits 5, 6 or 7 or more people in a quick burst. as well as your chances of survival is much greater if your hit only once as apposed to your chances of survival when you are hit multiple times.

a man with only a single shot must try to aim that shot to make it count, but an automatic sends so many rounds in rapid succession that aiming it becomes marginal, spray and pray. your odds of hitting grow with each round sent.

FLOTSOM

[Chalenge]

I wold prefer the M1 Springfield myself and its semi-auto. Its bigger its heavier which are not good traits but its also accurate which is something the AK misses out on but please dont think for an instant the AK isnt dangerous. Bullet for bullet though I think the Springfield is much better.

[CAVPFCDD]

Its called 'being a victim' when you dont have a gun. Some people love being a victim and look for excuses to be a victim. Other people dont like being a victim and pack heat. Those in the middle try to ignore the fact that there might be a situation one day when they will become a victim so they can avoid packing heat. Im betting one group in particular has the best chance of avoiding Darwins list of endangered species and thats why (one reason) I carry a gun.

No offense, but that just kind of sounds like paranoia, the chances of you needed your gun for protection or a shoot out are awfully slim, you should be able to feel safe without a gun, the world isn't out to get you.

[Dago]

No offense, but that just kind of sounds like paranoia, the chances of you needed your gun for protection or a shoot out are awfully slim, you should be able to feel safe without a gun, the world isn't out to get you.

The chance of needing homeowners insurance is actually pretty slim, but most people have it.  Same for life insurance when you are young, but again, most have it.  The difference of course is a gun might save your life, insurance just saves your money.  Which is worth more to you?