I HAVE A GREAT IDEA ON HOW TO FIX THE SUPER BUFF GUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Beefcake]

How about we just remove all the guns on the B17 & 26? That way Buffs will be totaly defenseless and will be easy kills for fighters. Or better yet how about we remove them totaly so that people like me will be forced to quit and go elsewhere?

<coughs>

Sorry, it's just that I've been hearing so much flak from people over the Buff guns that I had to post something. Please note that what I posted above is a JOKE!!!!!!!   Please take it as one.  

Now, my view on the guns is that right now they seem fair. I say leave them as they are for now. I will say this though, if a buff shoots you down and you get really pissed off and come here and whine remember one thing, YOU!!!!!!!! <points at you> are the one who decided to attack the buff. If you die, it's your own darn fault. Remember Buffs can't outrun fighters and they can't out manvure them much either.  And almost 90% of my kills in a buff are due to poor attacks by the attacking fighter. I.E. coming DEAD 6 on a buff or screwing up their attack and stalling on the buffs 6. Like alot of people will say, coming hi and fast on a buff is the best way. There have been times when a fighter will roll hi on me and I never get a shot, due to him moving so fast that I can't track him. But it will take pratice. So expect to get killed some. Now, if that buff was launching Sidewinders at you then I would come here and whine.   But otherwise just remember, buffing is a hard, long, boring job. Without buffs, alot of the fighters would be screwed in caping fields. And also remember that you the fighter pilot decide to engauge the Buff, he can't outrun you, he can only hope to fend you off. Anyway I'm rambleing now, so I'm gonna go hop in my B17 and bomb the Hell outta something.  



[This message has been edited by Beefcake (edited 07-26-2000).]

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Beefcake:
YOU!!!!!!!! <points at you> are the one who decided to attack the buff. If you die, it's your own darn fault

Uh yeah,thats why I usually refuse to attack a B17.

BTW Beef...next time please put the thread title with no caps...

See we'll see it just the same.

[Beefcake]

Sorry  


Beefcake- The friendly, kinda hearted buff pilot that will wipe your house off the face of the Earth  

[Zigrat]

I have no problem with a buffs lethality or toughness or manouverability when below 20k.

it is when it is at 25k, and your fighter only climbs 1.5k/sec so you can never get above the damned buff because he just flies at 320 MPH away from you while you are trying to grab some alt at 200 mph. then you can never catch him or get above him, so he makes easy work of you. Below 20k i only had 2 buffs kill me this tour but at 25k a b17 can outfly a 190, kinda silly.

[Beefcake]

Only thing is Zig, so far this tour I haven't flown a Buff above 15k. I hardly ever fly above 20k, because it takes so much time to reach the alt. The only time I have gone above 25k is when I am attacking A1, but you have to go above 20k or else the acks will get you. When I attack the "On Deck" airfields, I usualy stay at or below 15k, simply because there is no use to flying above 20k.

[This message has been edited by Beefcake (edited 07-26-2000).]

[Fishu]

When I we're on my streaking course, I used half of the times B-17 without guns  
Made it alot lighter to fly.

[Major Tom]

I think we need to make those buffs a bit more turbulent inside so they aren't such stable gunnery platforms, the tail gunner position should be very bouncy and the damn side gunners shouldn't be able to hit anything.

We also need to make the German fighters and the buffs a bit more resistant to MG bullet hits, the German fighters ought to be able to take a lot of head on damage.

I've actually been using the Jap Zero successfully in below/head-on attacks.

I think we should remove all but 2-4 of the current machinegun field defense and put up lots of explosive ack batteries.  We ought to have off field ack batteries that start pounding the approaching fighters before they get to the field.

It would be more challenging for everyone if they had to change their altitude constantly.

[Sparks]

Zig - I simply don't understand hwo you can say that it's unfair at 25k....

That's exactly WHY you would climb to 25 -it's called a defensive tactic - and believe me you don't decide to climb that high lightly. Climb rate at sea level is a tad over 1000 ft/min which drops rapidly as you climb - 20,000 will take probably half an hour and at 145kts thats 70 odd miles - call it three sectors. The last 5,000 will probably be at 500ft/min and higher true so another 10 mins - call it 30 miles ish - another sector and a bit. So to achieve this UNFAIR[/i] advantage you need to invest 3/4 hour and 4 sectors of exposure to fighters. In comparison your average Jug or 38 will get up to 25k in 10-15mins tops. I was jumped yesterday in a 20k B17 by a 30k P47. How in creation is that unfair ??? If you decide to wallow up to a Buff's 6 at stall speed and expect to get a kill then I think you are mistaken. If you can't get above a buff to set up a decent attack before he gets to his target then you are too late - he won and you lost - that's surely the idea of the game ??

I have to agree with Beefcake though - most buff missions are between 12 and 18k - life isn't long enough to do anything else and it minimises the territory you cover to expose yourself to fighters.

Sparks

[Sunchaser]

Major Tom,
I agree that the platform is too stable for the Bomber gunners but I also think that turbulance and gun vibration is not modelled for fighters either so those factors cancel each other out.

Add vibration and turbulence to all planes and the situation remains the same except we all miss a lot more.

Disagree on the heavy ack at airfields.

Flak belongs at major infrastructure points and Major airfields but the average WWII field had small calibre defences and way fewer Gulf War Hangers.(sorry, OT but a favorite whine of mine so I threw it in.)

I VOTE FOR RAM AS CHIEF OF FORUM CAPS POLICE!


------------------
When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by RAM:
Uh yeah,thats why I usually refuse to attack a B17.

BTW Beef...next time please put the thread title with no caps...

See we'll see it just the same.

Ram, tour 6 , while flying a FW190A5,you have a 4 to 1 ratio of killing B17's and a 1.222 to 1 ratio of killing the FW190-A5.  My guess is you should stick to killing buffs, or ban the A5.  



[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 08-04-2000).]

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
 Ram, tour 6 , while flying a FW190A5,you have a 4 to 1 ratio of killing B17's and a 1.222 to 1 ratio of killing the FW190-A5.  My guess is you should stick to killing buffs, or ban the A5.    

LOL rip  

Dismiss all your readings on my Tour 6. I passed thru a boring time for 2 weeks, I even started flying a G6!! (that alone makes clear HOW bored I was!  )


on the Buff matter, take a look into Downtown's thread,the one of the questions. I REFUSE, simply and square, to attack a B17 alone, unless I have 5-10K of advantage or I am in its forward quarter.

I told this before, when I go against a buff and both die(LOTS OF TIMES, even when I only attack as described avobe)I keep into the plane until I guet the Kill, then I jump. So his kill is awarded to me, and my kill is awarded to noone.

Anyway...its not strange I get a 4-1 K/D against B17s in tour6,too...last tour I vulched 8 B17s (the same dweeb  ) in a single mission <G>  

So...as I answered to Pyro...Ripsnort, Scores dont tell half the story. Numbers say what one wants them to say.

Man I'd be the bomber scourge! 4 K/D wow!  

[skippy]

HEEH   invincible = buff at 35k and the 2000yrd guns.  U can buff a whole tour in this game and not get killed once easily...(tho boring)doesnt that seem a bit odd?