A Long December Frame 1 Results

[Saxman]

So I can add 110s and 88s to my orders for this week and not give up anything else?

[Nefarious]

After some further thought,

The Allies will also have Tempests (24 Max) and Typhoons.

[Nefarious]

So I can add 110s and 88s to my orders for this week and not give up anything else?

Yes.

[Nefarious]

The Ju 88s will also have a minimum like the Allied B-26.

The Axis now have

Ju 88 (Min 8 Formations or 24 Aircraft)
Bf 110

The Allies now have

Tempest (Max 24)
Typhoon

[442w30]

A pyrrhic victory... 

[trax1]

Actually, I think making this an all-ground setup would have been VERY interesting.

If you like GV's I believe 4440 said he was planning a 3 week all GV scenario in the somewhat not to distant future, should be fun. 

[Anaxogoras]

A pyrrhic victory... 

No kidding.  I don't think it's worth it for the axis to gain the Ju88 and 110 (both of which are easy pickin's) if the allies get the Typhoon and 24 Tempests.

Ultimately, I prefer these kinds of events to remain as true to the real thing as possible.

[Anaxogoras]

Looking through the logs it looks like the 88s were cut to shreds.  I see a few hangars dropped here and there, but mostly "was shot down by..."  Nice target practice!

[Hamltnblue]

If my memory is correct axis got the 88's last minute because they requested them.     

edit:
Just checked, it was the begining of this thread starting at reply #1

[Anaxogoras]

Well, then the axis deserves the results it got.  The JU 88 is just a flying target against the late-war planeset.  If it had a better defensive armament like the JU 188 things might be different, but until then why be so masochistic?

In my opinion the 190F-8 is one of the best attack aircraft in the game.  Sure it only carries one big bomb, but it carries 12 rockets and has a truckload of ammunition.  If the axis had saved some 190F-8s for the tank fight at 231 last night things would have gone very differently.

The thing is, in events like FSO, most people don't have the main arena experience with the Luftwaffe aircraft that's needed to make them effective, whereas almost everyone has experience in a P-51 or P-38.  There's a portion of the AH community that doesn't realize the rockets on the 110G and 190A-8 are for air-to-air use and you'll see them loaded for ground attack.  Many do not know that the drop tank rack on the 190 and 109 incurs a drag penalty.  I'm expecting an allied win here, and I say kudos to the allies for making good use of the tools they have.

[Saxman]

The Axis had FIVE squadrons (one of Ar-234s, two of Bf-110s and one of 190Fs for air support, and one mix of 109Ks and 190Ds for air superiority) assigned to directly support the ground attack so it was NOT for a lack of planning. The problem was that the Allies had total control of the air and shot them all down. We were supposed to have escorts from the airfield strikes head into the area as well to provide further air-superiority, however all the strike packages ran into overwhelming numbers of enemy fighters and were heavily mauled, ESCORTS INCLUDED. 190Fs would have been slaughtered just as easily under the conditions faced by the strike groups as the Ju-88s were.

The plan was to hit the hangars at 109, 234, 246 and 241 at or just after T+60. In the Southeast this worked to perfection. 241 and 246 were knocked out immediately by the strike packages to secure 236 from the south and were captured in short order. However the initial attacks on 109 failed due to a low fog bank right over the target, and large numbers of Allied fighters in the area prevented planned strikes on 234 and follow-up attacks on 109.

[442w30]

I can vouch for that fog bank.  We kept taking the 234s lower and lower. After I passed through 3k I started to wonder how high the next ridge might be.  It wasn't too far under the a/c and right after it was 109.  We got vis on the base at about d1000. Much too late to drop bombs even close to it when traveling at 410.  So Plan B.  Glide/dive bomb.  I think several hangars were taken down at a two bases but never did we get one base leveled enough to make a difference.  About the best thing the 234 could be used for last night was as recon.  After my second bomb run, I spotted troops for the GVers at 223 (? might have been 224) and seeing no nme, the ground guys were able to roll troops and take back from the Allies.

So the clouds made life difficult but they were very impressive. <S> terrain team.