Ki-84

[Soulyss]

Had couple good scrapes against a Ki-84 tonight (I was flying my trusty P-38J), and I realized that the frank really gives me fits when I fly against it (wish I saved the film I hit cancel at the end of the sortie before I could think better of it).  Would love to get some pointers or see if there is any advantage the 38 can try to exploit against that little bugger, it seems to me that the Ki-84 holds most the cards. 

I'd particularly interested if anyone had any examples with a more or less even start as these seem to be the ones I have the most trouble with.  I almost would even prefer to start at a disadvantage, at least I feel more comfortable against the frank in that situation.

thanks in advance.

[Kazaa]

The Ki-84Ia's bad points:

Very poor surface controls, compresses in a dive.
When flaps are in she has a very substandard turn rate, with flaps out her turn rate improves a lot but she's still no Spitfire.

If the pilot is smart enough to keep the fight vertical there's seriously not much any plane can do to defeat the Ki-84Ia.

Epic video below showing the ability of the Ki-84 against P38s:

http://www.4shared.com/account/file/72270327/9d5cae26/Phew-WilbuzKi84.html

[SuperDud]

Keep the fight above the KIs speed to drop flaps. Once it's able to, you're more than likely gonna lose.

[mechanic]

Wilbuz! where are you? Are you holding him hostage Dud, you fiend.

[Hawk55]

The Ki-84Ia's bad points:


When flaps are in she has a very substandard turn rate, with flaps out her turn rate improves a lot but she's still no Spitfire.

You turned inside my Spit from the vertical the other day with a Ki Kaz and waxed me good.  Very nice flying Sir.   

[Rebel]

The only thing the 38 can do against a KI84 is keep the fight fast.

The Frank's a vicious energy fighter, fast accelerating, VERY good turn (at low speed), AWESOME roll rate (2nd only to the FW-190), and vertical performance that makes a Saturn V rocket blush.

[dedalos]

Keep the flight above 250.  Basically the faster the Ki is, th better your chances that your light bomber could win.  Once slow, the Ki can either turn or e-fight you with no problem.  One trick you can try when slow is make the Ki roll or loop.  If the pilot is not careful, he will get too fast on the way down and the flaps will retract.

[A8TOOL]

The Ki-84Ia's bad points:

Very poor surface controls, compresses in a dive. Does not compress under 400 but as it nears, controls do get a little stiffer. As long as you keep it fairly straight it can exceed 400 without a problem all the way up to 445 I think.

When flaps are in she has a very substandard turn rate, with flaps out her turn rate improves a lot but she's still no Spitfire. The first stage of flaps really does not do much. The more stages of flaps that are deployed the more chances you will have of losing control of her as she slows and turning on wep at this point can easily cause a snap roll. Flaps work well with the Ki but can be dangerous at times.

If the pilot is smart enough to keep the fight vertical there's seriously not much any plane can do to defeat the Ki-84Ia. Vertical it likes   The wep can keep it climbing, lasts a along time and replenishes itself  quickly.

Epic video below showing the ability of the Ki-84 against P38s:

http://www.4shared.com/account/file/72270327/9d5cae26/Phew-WilbuzKi84.html

[1Boner]

Does anyone know at what speed the KI starts to shed parts?

Its happened to me several times and I never noticed how fast I was when it happens.

And was this a real life problem?

I've heard that towards the end of the war that quality went south, but it was mainly the landing gear assy.

If thats true, I want to get an earlier version!!

[DarkglamJG52]

Does anyone know at what speed the KI starts to shed parts?

430-450 Mph @SL.

And was this a real life problem?

Good question, possibly japanaise AH freaks like Mitsu have info/reports about that.

[bongaroo]

The first stage of flaps really does not do much. The more stages of flaps that are deployed the more chances you will have of losing control of her as she slows and turning on wep at this point can easily cause a snap roll. Flaps work well with the Ki but can be dangerous at times.

It only has 2 flap settings and if the fight is slowing enough for the first notch to be flipped out it won't be but a few seconds for the full setting.  I've never had a problem snap rolling by engaging wep with the flaps out as it feels very stable.  If your cross controlling when you do it I could see the problem.

At higher speeds the Ki84 can be downright mean.  Take off combat trim and you'll notice a big difference in the high speed handling; at least until you get near the part shedding speed.

If someone is diving away at a rate you couldn't follow just keep your altitude and follow them from above.  If they attempt to come back up to your alt you'll have all the advantages.

[dkff49]

I actually don't fly the KI that much. I really only use it when I think I will need ords for something and there won't be much or any ack and I will have to dogfight later with it. I will say this though, I have never had a problem with it wanting to snap roll on me. Just last night I fought against 2 109's and one I took the fuel on and after watching the film saw that he ditched (that is why I did not get kill message) and the other hit the ground hard after I got a single ping on him. I had flaps full out just trying to keep up with these guys, not to mention working throttle and the hat switch to the point of my fingers hurting. The KI does go from flap speed to a climb very well and can surprise the enemy many times, that is the way I got the one that ditched, he tried to rope me and I got within 400 and took the shot as he and I both were stalling. I would say the key to defeating the KI84 with most planes is going to be your ability to judge energy differences so you know when you can use a roping or BnZ techniques.

BTW luck was on my side against the 109's because these guys should have blown my tail off. Both of them are very good virtual pilots and I am sure that in a 1vs1 rematch both of them would beat me in the first 1-2 turns, but sometimes luck is your only ace in the hole.

[bongaroo]

The vertical is where the Ki84 shines.  You have good climb and stabilty and by heading up your dropping your speed to get the uber-flaps out.  Use lots of high yo-yos and try to keep your nose above the horizon in a fight.  That simple rule has kept me competitive in many fights.  Just watch out for a con with higher E coming to pick you.  If you see them in time you can easily force an overshoot.

[A8TOOL]

Here's a good convergence IMO


300 and 225 work good too

[Sled]

The KI-84 is one of my favorite rides.

It's best move IMHO? climbing spiral with both notches of flaps.

In this situation, unless you have a MAJOR E-advantage, you better look for cover.

It's ability to pull a climbing spiral is truly amazing. I have gotten myself out of many jams by putting my nose up (way up) dropping flaps, wait for bandit to fall away, I flip over, tables turned.


Truly the best IJA had in the air