Author Topic: 109G-6/U4  (Read 660 times)

Offline MjTalon

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109G-6/U4
« on: December 12, 2008, 09:38:43 AM »
I know it's already been requested/wished/debated but i shall continue to wish for it since it's basically unknown why it was removed in the first place.

Please give the G6 it's Mk108 Cannon option back. What reason lead to it being removed in the first place? It was quite commonly used as well so that's not a factor.

In my opinion if that were to be the case of limited use, take the La7 for example. The 3x20mm cannon option was rare. It wasn't factory standard so why not give the G6 it's Mk108 back?

Seems a bit odd to me.  :rolleyes:

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Offline Denholm

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Re: 109G-6/U4
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2008, 10:03:46 AM »
Yes, please.

Could we also get back the 109G-10 without losing the K-4?
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Offline LLogann

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Re: 109G-6/U4
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2008, 12:07:16 PM »
Yes Please!!!
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Offline Karnak

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Re: 109G-6/U4
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2008, 12:29:56 PM »
It was not common on the time frame our G-6 is from.

It is like asking for Hispano Mk IIs on the Spitfire Mk Vb instead of Hispano Mk Is like we have.  Sure, Spitfire Mk Vbs with Hispano Mk IIs were very common, just not from the time frame our Spitfire MK V is from.
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: 109G-6/U4
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2008, 01:06:23 PM »
It doesnt matter what was common or not per the model we have in any aircraft in the AH2.

HTC will implement things without regards and without explination as to why.  Even when specific and legit data is presented here in these forums... it is over looked.  The AH2 version of the Mossie FB Mk IV is a perfect example.  Those friggin exhaust baffles should not be on the model we have if HTC is going by what was "common" or "not common".  In turn, we have a Mossi that can be chased down by fighters that were not able to do so in the real world.  But alas....

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Offline moot

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Re: 109G-6/U4
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2008, 01:49:07 PM »
That's why the Komet thrust bug was replied to by Pyro within days, without even any explicit math.. Just a polite and cogent request for it to be looked at.  There's been plenty of times HTC did what you say they don't. You'd know if you'd been around long enough and didn't have your blinders down.
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: 109G-6/U4
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2008, 02:17:28 PM »
It was not common on the time frame our G-6 is from.

It is like asking for Hispano Mk IIs on the Spitfire Mk Vb instead of Hispano Mk Is like we have.  Sure, Spitfire Mk Vbs with Hispano Mk IIs were very common, just not from the time frame our Spitfire MK V is from.

Why not have both and let ENY take care of the results?
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Offline Karnak

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Re: 109G-6/U4
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2008, 02:26:41 PM »
Ask HTC, but I suspect it has to do with the confusion many non-wonk players would have when looking at two Bf109G-6s or two Spitfire Mk Vs on the list.
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: 109G-6/U4
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2008, 02:38:47 PM »
If they want to keep an earlier version of the 109G-6 and introduce the later version of the 109G-6 why not just do what they did with the F4Us in the game?  I don't think the 30mm version would need to be perked, but it could have a different ENY value.

The alternative thing to do for the sakes of continuity would be to remove the La7 and F4U1C, either way something should be done so that it doesn't come off as HTC having personal favorites, which I don't think they want to or have ever wanted to do.

I wasn't really into 109s a few years ago in this game as much as I am now since I returned, so I'm definetley onboard the bandwagon here for these 109G6/U4 wishes.
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Offline moot

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Re: 109G-6/U4
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2008, 02:44:27 PM »
It wouldnt be that hard to see there's a difference if the clipboard list said
Bf 109G-6
Bf 109G-6/U4
With a corresponding ENY for each..
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: 109G-6/U4
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2008, 02:59:22 PM »
That's why the Komet thrust bug was replied to by Pyro within days, without even any explicit math.. Just a polite and cogent request for it to be looked at.  There's been plenty of times HTC did what you say they don't. You'd know if you'd been around long enough and didn't have your blinders down.

Blinders?  Nah, I dont have any blinders on.  Polite?  I havnt been rude, just stating facts.  I have yet to see any evidence since I been playing (Jan '08) that leads me to believe that they pay attention to historical and legit information that contradicts what they have in the game, especially if it is able to be coded with ease.  I've seen two things changed on behalf of gameplay: the first being after enough people cried that the new model F6F had a worse rear view than the original and the second being the slow elevation of the main gun on the M4 Firefly.  Both complaints were based on game play issues and not historical data.  "I cant see, the rear view suxors!" or "The gun is too slow, I cant get the elevation quick enough now" is not historical or legit data, mind you.  

I wonder if HTC pulled some stat out of the bucket and applied it to the game.  Did they even research the rate of traverse and elevation for the tanks?  The certainly dont apply the same formula to the aircraft for rear views.  Ever wonder why you can look to the rear in some planes while being   X far away from the rear of the seat and not others???  A pilot can only lean forward so far from the rear of the seat, but yet in come planes your able to manipulate the rear view much more than others.  Each and every plane should be [X Distance from rear of seat].  Again, no ryhme or reason. Do they research this stuff??? Seems to me that if they change things the way they did... no, they didnt.  They just threw the pickle on the wall again.  What about acceleration speeds for the tanks?  Rate of fire?  Where did they pull out those numbers?  For them to swap numbers and simply apply them as they see fit... when this is supposed to be a sim?  Am I the only one to question this stuff?  I'm guessing the others are tired of questioning and just play with what they've been given.      

Time and time again people have presented the evidence regarding the Mossi data and time and time again... nothing.  
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: 109G-6/U4
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2008, 03:06:25 PM »
Blinders?  Nah, I dont have any blinders on.  Polite?  I havnt been rude, just stating facts.  I have yet to see any evidence since I been playing (Jan '08) that leads me to believe that they pay attention to historical and legit information that contradicts what they have in the game, especially if it is able to be coded with ease.  I've seen two things changed on behalf of gameplay: the first being after enough people cried that the new model F6F had a worse rear view than the original and the second being the slow elevation of the main gun on the M4 Firefly.

SmokinLoon, I am usually skeptical myself, but you are wrong here.  For instance, the 109G-6 and G-14 gained the option of having 200 cannon rounds instead of 150 because of a British document that showed a captured 109G-14 was capable of carrying 200 rounds of 20mm, even if 150 was the normal loadout.  Moreover, German documentation was presented that showed the gondola weapons could carry 140 rpg instead of 125, and so that was changed, too.

I admit I was surprised that the changes happened so promptly, but nonetheless pleased.

As for Tanks, take their modeling with a grain of salt.  It's clear that gv modeling is not as painstakingly done as aircraft modeling in AH.  Otherwise you couldn't flip a Tiger by running over a sheep. Baaaa! :D
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 03:08:32 PM by Anaxogoras »
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Offline Motherland

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Re: 109G-6/U4
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2008, 03:56:07 PM »
Blinders?  Nah, I dont have any blinders on.  Polite?  I havnt been rude, just stating facts.  I have yet to see any evidence since I been playing (Jan '08) that leads me to believe that they pay attention to historical and legit information that contradicts what they have in the game, especially if it is able to be coded with ease.  I've seen two things changed on behalf of gameplay: the first being after enough people cried that the new model F6F had a worse rear view than the original and the second being the slow elevation of the main gun on the M4 Firefly.  Both complaints were based on game play issues and not historical data.  "I cant see, the rear view suxors!" or "The gun is too slow, I cant get the elevation quick enough now" is not historical or legit data, mind you.  

I wonder if HTC pulled some stat out of the bucket and applied it to the game.  Did they even research the rate of traverse and elevation for the tanks?  The certainly dont apply the same formula to the aircraft for rear views.  Ever wonder why you can look to the rear in some planes while being   X far away from the rear of the seat and not others???  A pilot can only lean forward so far from the rear of the seat, but yet in come planes your able to manipulate the rear view much more than others.  Each and every plane should be [X Distance from rear of seat].  Again, no ryhme or reason. Do they research this stuff??? Seems to me that if they change things the way they did... no, they didnt.  They just threw the pickle on the wall again.  What about acceleration speeds for the tanks?  Rate of fire?  Where did they pull out those numbers?  For them to swap numbers and simply apply them as they see fit... when this is supposed to be a sim?  Am I the only one to question this stuff?  I'm guessing the others are tired of questioning and just play with what they've been given.      

Time and time again people have presented the evidence regarding the Mossi data and time and time again... nothing.  
I even pointed out that you were wrong in another thread; most of the problems with the Mosquito were COG problems, which were fixed. The Mosquito is properly modeled for the version that is in the game. Is that the model that should be present? Maybe, maybe not. But saying what you're saying is just... wrong.
That whole post is just kind of silly to be quite honest. First of all, you haven't exactly been around very long to be making such sweeping generalizations about HTC's policies on this manor, second even in the time you've been playing you've overlooked several things that HTC has done when sufficient data has been presented (see moot's 'blinders')

BTW...
Quote
Both complaints were based on game play issues and not historical data.  "I cant see, the rear view suxors!" or "The gun is too slow, I cant get the elevation quick enough now" is not historical or legit data, mind you. 
The Firefly's gun elevation speed was a bug, it was slowed down from the previous version (accidentally I guess, or maybe they just slowed it more than they had intended).
With the F6F, people who had actually sat inside it's cockpit (ex. widewing and others) said that the views were not as permissive as they should have been.

On the subject of head movement in general, in WW2 not all cockpits were gargantuan bubble canopies like on modern fighters, and different fighters had different sized canopies. you obviously can't move your head outside of the canopy.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 04:05:24 PM by Motherland »

Offline MjTalon

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Re: 109G-6/U4
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2008, 08:49:47 AM »
bump.  ;)

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