Author Topic: How low will you go to defend a base?  (Read 453 times)

Offline -raxx-

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How low will you go to defend a base?
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2000, 11:53:00 PM »
AKDejaVu,

somehow you've taken this personally and you've gotten the wrong end of the stick.  Karnak stated that a rook in a lancaster did the same thing.  So this is obviously a flaw being exploited by more than one player/country.  You are making a rather weak attempt to divert from the issue at hand because you appear to percive this as a personal attack on the Knights.

The issue is that bombs can be dropped at ground level from a bomber with apparently no effect on that aircraft.  This is agreed to be unrealistic by the majority of the people relying to this thread.

Over the previous two hours the arena numbers dwindled down to 3 knights, 3 bishops and 8 rooks, (for some strange reason there are a lot of Kiwi's and Aussies who fly rook so it seems logical we'd outnumber other countries in our time zone).  As usual Rookland was about as organised as an asylum low on tranquilizers and had been banging away at A2 for 90 minutes without result.  I got pissed off at the lack of progress and attacked A3 at low altitude in a Lancaster while the cons were tied up at another field.

If you want to accuse me of gaming the game then I'm guilty.  I'll climb higher, run away when outnumbered, sneak under radar in a C47 or a lancaster, make a head-on snap shot, gang bang, drag cons through AAA and attack undefended fields.  I'll use an ostwind to destroy a Headquaters rather than a Panzer because the otswind will take it down and a panzer can't.  I will use any and every means or advantage available to defend myself, attack another player or attack another country to the advantage of my own.  But then that's the whole point of Aces High isn't it?  To win?

What I object to is what is an obvious flaw in the game which allows a weapon system to be used unrealisticly without penalty to the player exploiting that flaw.

If Rudedawg was in an ostwind, (and he may very well have been in a panzer but since you weren't there and I didn't bother asking we will never know), and destroying the base then that may not be the primary purpose of the weapon but it can be used that way with a penalty.  He's subject to counter fire for longer and has a weaker turret armour.  Objectively an Ostwind could destroy a building but it takes longer and uses more ammunition.  It may not have been designed to do that but it can carry out the task.  A bomber can't drop bombs at ground level, (or even low level), without destroying itself.

If you want to start a seperate thread about gaming the game or gang banging then there's a button at the bottom of this web page marked "New Post".  I suggest you start there and consider that those in glass houses should not throw stones.

One last question.  Do you think bombers should be allowed to taxi along the runway dropping bombs to destroy ground vehicles without themsleves being destroyed?

Offline AKDejaVu

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How low will you go to defend a base?
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2000, 01:07:00 AM »
 
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somehow you've taken this personally and you've gotten the wrong end of the stick. Karnak stated that a rook in a lancaster did the same thing. So this is obviously a flaw being exploited by more than one player/country. You are making a rather weak attempt to divert from the issue at hand because you appear to percive this as a personal attack on the Knights.

Erm.. I've flown for 3 different countries in the last 3 months.  Our squad changes countries every tour to add a little variety.

As for taking it personal.. I am not.  It wasn't me in the bomber.. you aren't attacking me or any of my squadies (that I know of).

The title of the thread implies that the person flying the bomber somehow "went low" in his particular move.

To be honest, he gamed the game much like you and the other individual did.  Your cohort spent 20 minutes doing it and you have the gall to come in and criticize the other person that did it.

"How low will you go?"  Puhleez.

 
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The issue is that bombs can be dropped at ground level from a bomber with apparently no effect on that aircraft. This is agreed to be unrealistic by the majority of the people relying to this thread.

Never said it wasn't.  What part about knowing exactly how many enemy are on-line, exactly where they are, knowing exactly where their hangars and defenses are, knowing exactly what you need to take down to capture the base, being able to take an air-field with 1 ground vehicle, or respawning after being captured IS realistic?

Pick and choose.. pick and choose.  Someone is sinking low with his exploitation.. someone else is a victim inspite of his exploitation.

Hmmmmmm.


 
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Over the previous two hours the arena numbers dwindled down to 3 knights, 3 bishops and 8 rooks, (for some strange reason there are a lot of Kiwi's and Aussies who fly rook so it seems logical we'd outnumber other countries in our time zone). As usual Rookland was about as organised as an asylum low on tranquilizers and had been banging away at A2 for 90 minutes without result. I got pissed off at the lack of progress and attacked A3 at low altitude in a Lancaster while the cons were tied up at another field.

Basically, you are getting defensive.  What part of this justifies using the "low blow" title on the knit trying to defend his base(s) despite rediculous odds.

 
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If you want to accuse me of gaming the game then I'm guilty. I'll climb higher, run away when outnumbered, sneak under radar in a C47 or a lancaster, make a head-on snap shot, gang bang, drag cons through AAA and attack undefended fields. I'll use an ostwind to destroy a Headquaters rather than a Panzer because the otswind will take it down and a panzer can't

Climbing higher: realistic
Running: realistic
sneaking under radar: realistic
Using ostwind to destroy radar: unrealistic (yet you justify?)

 
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I will use any and every means or advantage available to defend myself, attack another player or attack another country to the advantage of my own.

You are perfectly welcome to use any and every means or advantage available to defend yourself, attack another player or attack another country to the advantage of your own.  Just don't come on the bbs and complain that someone else is doing it too.  Or that you just don't like the particular method someone else used.  Its simply rediculous.

 
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If Rudedawg was in an ostwind, (and he may very well have been in a panzer but since you weren't there and I didn't bother asking we will never know), and destroying the base then that may not be the primary purpose of the weapon but it can be used that way with a penalty. He's subject to counter fire for longer and has a weaker turret armour. Objectively an Ostwind could destroy a building but it takes longer and uses more ammunition. It may not have been designed to do that but it can carry out the task. A bomber can't drop bombs at ground level, (or even low level), without destroying itself.

I didn't criticize anyone for using an ostwind to attack a base.  I do it all the time.  I don't sit back and pretend its realistic though (isn't that the point of this thread.. realism?).

BTW.. there is only one risk when hitting a base with an ostwind... a panzer coming up.  An Ostwind can take down a hangar in about half the time a panzer can.. and it can take down much more than a panzer can.  If the VH is down.. there is nothing sacrificed by taking an ostwind.

 
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If you want to start a seperate thread about gaming the game or gang banging then there's a button at the bottom of this web page marked "New Post". I suggest you start there and consider that those in glass houses should not throw stones.

I suggest you take your own advice.  Its obvious you seem to have a certain set of rules as to what you believe makes the game realistic.  Very little about that entire scenario was realistic.. yet you focus on one thing.  Hmmmmm.  What was that part about glass houses?

AKDejaVu

eskimo

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How low will you go to defend a base?
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2000, 03:57:00 AM »
This is a game.

Either kill all hangers or take a RISK on a sneak capture.  (This means you might die.)

eskimo

Offline Fishu

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How low will you go to defend a base?
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2000, 08:39:00 AM »
IMHO, Base capturing should be made harder so that the people would finally stick in their thick heads that teamwork is the key and not some soloing.
Too often one or two flakpanzers can take whole base down to their kneees and couple panzers opposing them doesn't do much harm - as 37mm tears them apart from 2.5k (buah)
As well some one lone bomber can disable whole base in couple passes and then fighters can use their guns to get acks out (or use flakpanzer)

V fields also are bit too easy to take - it just needs fighter that can take same way 3 V bases down easily. (acks and VHs)


I hope we really get harder field captures and people would learn something like teamwork.

Offline Jekyll

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How low will you go to defend a base?
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2000, 01:40:00 AM »
 
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To be honest, he gamed the game much like you and the other individual did. Your cohort spent 20 minutes doing it and you have the gall to come in and criticize the other person that did it.

Umm.. so are you saying that if a particular country only has 3 online, they should somehow become immune from attack?


Offline Ripsnort

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How low will you go to defend a base?
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2000, 03:15:00 PM »
What Eskimo said.

If theres a loophole, theres always someone to exploit it, and if you don't exploit it, someone else will.

Offline Rickenbacker

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How low will you go to defend a base?
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2000, 03:32:00 PM »
OK, ignoring the flamewar above, bombs dropped from a plane on the ground shouldn't have time to arm, and thus not explode.


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Offline sling322

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How low will you go to defend a base?
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2000, 04:21:00 PM »
I dont know if it has anything to do with the Main Arena, but I have killed myself before in a B17 by dropping bombs while I was sitting on the ground.  It was in the Med terrain and myself and a couple of others (Sunchaser and Skipper) were doing a little formation flying in there one night.  After we landed I had some problems with my brakes and ended up running into the fuel tanks...well to make a long story short I respawned and taxied over to them to take some screen shots and after they exited to tower I opened my bomb doors just for the hell of it and dropped a 500 lb bomb under me....next thing I know I am sitting in the tower.  

Offline AKDejaVu

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How low will you go to defend a base?
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2000, 11:39:00 AM »
 
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OK, ignoring the flamewar above

I strongly disagree with the title of this thread and its implications.  Nobody was insulted.  Nobody was "flamed".

 
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bombs dropped from a plane on the ground shouldn't have time to arm, and thus not explode.

I don't disagree.  I do believe there are several other things in this scenario that should be fixed first.  To single out the bomb arming as an issue is somewhat rediculous.

AKDejaVu

Offline hblair

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How low will you go to defend a base?
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2000, 03:28:00 PM »
dejavu, The guy has a point. You can downplay it til your blue in the face, you can say other things need attnetion first, la-di-da, whatever. the fact remains this guy has made a valid point. Why not just say, "hey, good point, and also, this needs attention too..."

Seems you're always downplaying other peoples views, as if you're the ultimate authority on it all.  

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I do believe there are several other things in this scenario that should be fixed first. To single out the bomb arming as an issue is somewhat rediculous.
[/b]

Tell me, exactly what would be a *better* place to start fixing things in this scenario?


Offline AKDejaVu

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How low will you go to defend a base?
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2000, 05:36:00 PM »
It would have been an excellent point if that's all that were in this post.

The author went to all the trouble to point out that this unrealistic event deprived two individuals of a base capture.  A base capture based on a large series of unrealistic events.

Once again.. look at the title of the thread.

You'll see me spout up whenever someone phrazes things in a manner that condemn other pilots for playing the game.  When they dictate what plane should be flown, how it should be flown, what should be done with it, how it should be done, what should be done in the game, what should not be done in the game.

This was one of those threads.  It started that way.. and it is finishing that way.

Just bring up the point of the bombs and leave it at that.

AKDejaVu

Offline hblair

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How low will you go to defend a base?
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2000, 10:44:00 PM »
 
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:

Once again.. look at the title of the thread.

You'll see me spout up whenever someone phrazes things in a manner that condemn other pilots for playing the game.  When they dictate what plane should be flown, how it should be flown, what should be done with it, how it should be done, what should be done in the game, what should not be done in the game.

This was one of those threads.  It started that way.. and it is finishing that way.

Just bring up the point of the bombs and leave it at that.

AKDejaVu

Thanks for making my point for me. The first two lines of this thread say...

 
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Ok, the subject line is just a troll to get your attention but there is a serious question behind it which may be a bug, (or bomb fusing just not correctly modelled yet).

What do you get out of that? I'm very interested to hear.

It just seems picky for you to jump in so many threads and *correct* the guy who started it, as if its really thatimportant?   You seem to feel passionate about every little thing in this game. That's your prerogative, My eyes just get sore reading through all the filler to the meat of the thread.  



Offline AKDejaVu

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How low will you go to defend a base?
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2000, 01:30:00 AM »
Sorry HBlair.. you are missing it.

Why the title?

Why the long story?

Oh, that's right, an apology and a wink lessen the impact.. of the blow.

If someone were to say "There is a bug, the bombs arm too soon" or "the bombs pickle even after the aircraft is destroyed" then it is a bug report or gameplay complaint.  I don't participate.

When it is presented as something that is unrealistic at the tail end of a totally unrealistic situation, then I will point it out.  I'm very consistant on this.  Argue for realism or against it.  Don't pick and chose.

 
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It just seems picky for you to jump in so many threads and *correct* the guy who started it, as if its really thatimportant?  You seem to feel passionate about every little thing in this game. That's your prerogative, My eyes just get sore reading through all the filler to the meat of the thread.

I can't help but find this statement to be anything but ironic in light of your contribution to this thread.

AKDejaVu


[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 11-05-2000).]

Offline hblair

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How low will you go to defend a base?
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2000, 02:51:00 AM »
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I'm very consistant on this.
[/b]

That, You are.