Multiple Deaths

[Ramon]

Question: why in a one life event such as FSO can a GVer reup time after time?  I understand getting the second life to start the GV campaign but with multiple lives it does seem to turn into a strategyless (is that a word? I'm using it anyway) affair.  No need to be careful, just grab another tank and get back at it.

[Anaxogoras]

I agree with your point.  On the other hand, with 1 life you'd have to have some rules about how quickly aircraft can attack gv's once they spawn.  When we spawned at v231 a B-26 instantly tried to carpet bomb us en mass instead of taking down the hangars.

[fudgums]

Question: why in a one life event such as FSO can a GVer reup time after time?  I understand getting the second life to start the GV campaign but with multiple lives it does seem to turn into a strategyless (is that a word? I'm using it anyway) affair.  No need to be careful, just grab another tank and get back at it.

I believe they did testing of the GV lives. They said that it caused too many problems. So Gv lives were unlimited

[shreck]

The GV portion is a bit over the top, IMO. There is NO consiquence for bad decisions or poor planning, just rinse and repeat. It looks as though it is nothing more than mob VS mob, untill one sides hangars are down it is a virtual stalemate. I think the way the inclusion of GVs are factored now, takes away from the genral feel of FSO. I don't understand the unlimited lives for GVs. Is it a way to get more folks to play for the whole 2 hours ? is it just to try and add a different element to FSO ?
I very much enjoy the "FINALITY" of FSO, and think there needs to be a way to incorporate "FINALITY" into the GV portion as well!   

[Nefarious]

I believe they did testing of the GV lives. They said that it caused too many problems. So Gv lives were unlimited

Exactly. We had issues on how the life limiter and death time worked. It had to be dropped.

The original plan was to have 1 Aircraft Life, 1 Vehicle Life.

[morfiend]

This might be asking too much but how about an honor system?

 set GV lives to say 2 or 3 or whatever and state it in rules.

 Violators would be harshly delt with.

[Sled]

This might be asking too much but how about an honor system?

With 500 people, it is.



We are still experimenting with GV's in FSO this is only the second  event with full GV use.

In time we will figure out what works best.

[Nefarious]

You also have to look at the battlefield objectives, If we were successful in limiting the Vehicle lives to one life the battlefield objectives may have been impossible to attain.

We may have had to adjust it to multiple lives anyway after frame 1.

[Ramon]

This is good conversation on the subject.  I think planned number of lives in a plane, planned number of lives in a GV.  Like 1, 1 or 1, 2.  If the objectives cannot be attained for one side then that is in fact objective achievement for the other side.  Offense will either destroy the target or defense will deter the destruction.  Too many lives make for a free-for-all no consequence event. 

[Anaxogoras]

You can already see a difference in how people fly in this FSO because of the expectation of more action after death in the air.

[Nefarious]

If the objectives cannot be attained for one side then that is in fact objective achievement for the other side.  Offense will either destroy the target or defense will deter the destruction. 

And what if both sides can not attain the objectives? This a fluid engagement, not one side on defense the other on offense. Both sides have offensive and defensive units, and if lives were limited there may have been not enough players to actually "move" the front line. The battle could have remained in one location with a brief fight.

In Frame 1 I used multiple GVs, in Frame 2 I only used two GVs. In frame 1 my GV experience would have been over rather quickly if I had only one or two lives.

This brings us back to the original issue with the life limiter, if it worked we could say lets try one, two or more lives in vehicles, it doesn't and that's why we have to have unlimited lives.

[Nefarious]

You can already see a difference in how people fly in this FSO because of the expectation of more action after death in the air.

Care to explain?

[Anaxogoras]

Care to explain?

Whatever I say is going to be anecdote, and I don't mean to deride how others are having fun... so it's just my opinion, right?

I think we get a bit more sloppy when we know death doesn't mean a permanent trip to the tower (that frame).  I have seen more singletons than normal; people who might otherwise look for their comrades, but instead go looking for a fight like a WW1 pilot.  Support aircraft make suicide runs over AAA (wirbels) because it's fun and they can come back to the fight in a gv.

To my mind, FSO with multiple lives is a lot more like the latest BoB scenario than previous FSO's.  It's a lot of fun, but not the same thing as before.

[Chapel]

Just to chime in....

In a previous FSO where Ground Vehicles were used, there was only 1 life. The fight ensued in a forest, and while I managed to kill one tank, I quickly was killed and that ended my life very quickly. Never saw any objective, never really got any kind of idea of what was going on.

In this FSO, multiple lives were allowed and kind of cause a very fluid and exciting fight. I only used 1 GV life in the first frame, and 2 in the second. I was still very careful with my lives, because the time it takes to drive back to the objective is substantial enough. In the first frame I drove almost the entire 60 mins before meeting an enemy tank at the base I approached. And when I shot him down, I got a lot of "Boooing" over the vox.

Second frame, the push on St. Vith was incredibly difficult, and made so even more because I knew I had to advance carefully or have a 15 min drive back to the objective.

I think due to the time aspect of the frame for GV's only being 60 mins, you have to be more careful. Defense is one thing, because you're close, but with the aircraft still available to bomb down hangers, you can't waste your lives.

I thoughouly enjoyed the GV portion of this FSO much more. There were objectives to take/defend, and a time frame to do it in. I rarely drive tanks in the main arenas, and the FSO has encouraged me to drive them more often now.
As far as flying differently, because there's a ground portion, I don't see that as the case. Least not for me. I'd have MUCH rather been in the air over our objective scouting, and bombing enemy tanks, than on the ground. It didn't happen that way, but that's how I'd have rather it gone.

[TUK]

This is a great topic..  Personally, I was the Cic for the first gv battle of FSO. Tunisia... Me and (Chappy)=other cic, had a certain amount of gv's we could use.  We also encountered a total reset during the frame. 
The cm team is working on bringing gv's to fso. 
We had problems with our tanks at tunisia, due to the reset, but the gv portion was fun for the squads involved..
Stvith was attacked frame 2 of BOBulge. Frame rate was terible!
Everyone, give their opinions on the gv battles! The Special events  staff needs input.
The cm's will do what is right for FSO.. Give them our experiences and info.. Tuk151