Author Topic: An observation in the MA  (Read 414 times)

Offline LaVa

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An observation in the MA
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2000, 04:41:00 PM »
Well you guys have a point.....

No need for early war type aiplanes to be modeled <right now>...It might be good for scenarios but other than that they will collect dust in the hanger.  

Take a look at zeke, it has a hard time competeting in the MA.  Glad its here, its fun to play with sometimes.

I fear the Hellcat might suffer the same fate.   I love the hellcat and will try to prove otherwise.

Bring on the A26 or mossie...we need more attack planes.

Offline AKDejaVu

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An observation in the MA
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2000, 11:05:00 PM »
 
Quote
Still, when you see almost everyone and their dog flying only 1 or 2 planes, that's sorta disappointing.

Hmmm.. My stats show 11 spit9 engagements, 7 P51 engagements, 6 F4u-1C engagements, 4 Lanc engagements, 4 C47 engagments, 3 109-G10 engagments, 3 P-38 engagements, 3 N1k engagements, 3 B-17 engagements, 2 Yak engagements, 1 205 engagment, 1 F4u-1D engagement, 1 Typhoon engagement, 1 LA5 engagement, 1 P47 engagement and 1 Ju88 engagment.  MOST of my kills didn't come from any two or three aircraft.  MORE of my kills came against everything but the top 3 flown planes.  Weird how you fail to recognize that.

I expect to see some aircraft more than others.  But I am seeing all sorts up there.  My stats definately reflect that.

People are flying all aircraft.  Some aircraft are prefered for whatever reason.  That will always be the case.  Some are not flown by most because they don't perform well.  That will always be the case.

All of the planes are necessary in the arena.  It means that aircraft will go up against planes that they didn't historically face.  That in and of itself is fun.  That is why people still hop in .202s occasionally and go hunting F4u-1Cs.  They don't do it because the 202 is better than the 1C.. they do it because its a challenge and it is fun to them.


This whole thread is pointless.  Your argument is pointless.  Think I'll stop with my contribution to the pointlessness.

AKDejaVu

Offline Vermillion

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An observation in the MA
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2000, 08:24:00 AM »
Has anyone looked at the stats on the La5FN?

It is a midwar E fighter, and is not built for "turnfighting" in the least.

It has a wingloading up in the P-51 range, and only moderate power to weight ratio.

So you match it up against the George, which has incredible power to weight at low altitudes, and is also a pretty good turner, and you try to turnfight it?

I don't know a thing about the "make a 270 degree turn and no E loss" kind of statements, but it doesn't suprise me in the least that a George would win a fight like you described.

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Vermillion
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Offline Soda

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An observation in the MA
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2000, 09:24:00 AM »
The N1K is the king of the turnfight right now in my mind.  The Zero can get inside it, but there aren't many zero's around and it's pretty easy to escape a Zero.  Meeting a Co-Alt N1K in anything is a scary proposition, something about the model has turned it into a very good turnfighter.  I think I've only flown it twice this tour, just to try it out and learn the weaknesses, but there are very few.  Up high it isn't as good and the cannons are not great.  When they hit they are good, but I was having aiming problems with them (my fault).  It's no wonder we see lots of N1K's out there, it's a good plane for the MA.

AKDejavu, you may or maynot respond, I could care less, but again you pointed to the same results.  First, take out bomber encounters because they are never a problem.  To tell you the honest truth, I'm surprised more B26's aren't around in the MA but I've seen all the bombers and C47's I would like, so:

yet again we have to do the math:
<quote>
11 spit9 engagements, 7 P51 engagements, 6 F4u-1C engagements, 4 Lanc engagements, 4 C47 engagments, 3 109-G10 engagments, 3 P-38 engagements, 3 N1k engagements, 3 B-17 engagements, 2 Yak engagements, 1 205 engagment, 1 F4u-1D engagement, 1 Typhoon engagement, 1 LA5 engagement, 1 P47 engagement and 1 Ju88 engagment
<end of quote>

Take out bombers and goons, you have 40 kills.  Add up the Spit9, N1K, P51 and C-hog, 24 kills... 60% from only 4 planes.  Obviously you've collected a couple more kills against G10's and Yaks in the last couple of days.  I've seen a couple more of those too, saw a Yak last night and a La5.  Still points to an overwhelming slant against those couple of planes.  The only way your math works is to include Lanc and C47 kills in the mix (4 of each).  Neither is a very fearsome opponent... everyone know the Lanc weakness and can kill them without a ping, the C47, well the troops don't shoot out the window so they are pretty much defenseless.

Seems a lot of people see it AKDejavu, just not you.  At the most basic level your stats state that you  see 11 Spit9's for every 1 C205.  No doubt having these planes to face in the MA is fun, just many people aren't taking them up because flying them isn't fun in the MA (i.e. you die a lot

Soda

Offline AKDejaVu

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An observation in the MA
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2000, 01:35:00 PM »
 
Quote
First, take out bomber encounters because they are never a problem.

Soda.. I really have to wonder what game you are playing?  When are bombers not a problem?

It sounds to me like you really want to live in a H2H type of environment.  Where everything is curtailed to your specific flying style.  Everyone engages co-alt co-speed with aircraft that are evenly matched.

That is reflected in the way you manipulate data.  If two aircraft are over a base at 15k.. one fighter and one bomber... I take out the bomber first then turn for the fighter.  I know I only have to worry about the fighter when he's on my 6.. but the bomber is a threat as long as he has an unabated path to my base and higher than me.

I've also noticed your argument has gone from "2 or 3 main planes in the arena" to "if you add up the top 4".  How far are you willing to stretch/manipulate things to prove your point?  I especially like this:

 
Quote
Add up the Spit9, N1K, P51 and C-hog, 24 kills... 60% from only 4 planes.

Why'd you throw the N1k in there?  I have just as many engagements as 109-G10s and P-38s yet you singled out the N1K because it supports your argument.  In truth.. you are only seeing what you want to see.  Oh.. by the way.. I also like the way you only focus on kills.  As if the deaths I had against aircrafts weren't really engagements.  But then.. you would have had to add a 5th aircraft into your equation and that is just getting too far from your original goal.

I see all sorts of planes in the arena.  Some more than others.  I have never gone up and only seen 2 or 3 specific aircraft in a large furball.  There is always something else in there.  There will always be something else in there.  It is because it does not matter how well aircraft handle.. there will always be people willing to fly them.  There will always be people that can do good in them.

AKDejaVu

Offline Soda

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An observation in the MA
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2000, 01:22:00 PM »
Ah, Dejavu... I see we will agree to disagree... As for your fighting style comments about me, well, I have no idea how you managed to dream that up.  I'd hate this to be a duelling arena, I don't even like duelling to tell you the honest truth in the sense of the word.  I do tend to get caught lower in the altitude bands than you though since that is where most of the important strategic aspects of the game happen, not at 25K.  If someone comes in high and BnZ's me, well, they don't tend to have a lot of success as long as my SA is working.  Bled out 3 or 4 straight cons who tried it the other day before they ran away.  Often as a side effect of the game though you end up with some sort of duel since there are definite alt bands that some people work in.  If you meet half way inbetween bases with an enemy con, quite often they are basically Co-Alt unless you made a point (or they did) of climbing a little higher.  Either way, you usually don't end up with a straightup fight at merge for many reasons.

I never said/meant bombers weren't a problem, I just didn't include them in the stats because I've seen all kinds of bombers in the main arena of all types.  There are lots of bombers in the air still, although the ground game is reducing that number a bit now that the option is available to drive an Ostie.  Still, I think that's healthy in a way.  I've seen and shot down/been shot down (at least I think I have), by all the different bomber types, that's why I didn't include them in the discussion.  This was about fighters, not bombers.  As for the "I'd kill the bomber first" comment, well, it depends on the situation.  I might also, if it strategically is more important, if not, I might let the bomber loaf and deal with the fighter first since it is the one that is more dangerous.  Like I said though, It depends on the situation.

My original comment listed 3 planes and the Ostwind as the principals, sure, now it is 4... woo hoo, I've also noticed more variety in the air lately, good.  That was what I hoped would happen.  You've notedly managed to shoot down some 190's towards the latter parts of this tour, as have I, so that just supports the diversification issue later in the tour vs early.  I did focus on deaths too, I added them in, but at the time you printed your stats you hadn't died to ANY of the planes I listed as rare.  You just had a whole lotta zeros so to my way of thinking it meant you hadn't seen any... either that or you ran away from C202's when you saw them to avoid conflict.

I can't claim to have gone up and ONLY seen 1 or 2 aircraft types in a furball or pack, but I have gone up and seen a pack of 5 N1K's  or 5 F4U's (couldn't be sure I checked every plane for type) or 5 Spits (again type not totally known)... never a pack of 5 C205's.  The most C205's I've ever seen together is 2, I know because I looked on it and said "wow, 2 C205's neat"  There might be one C205 low, or maybe a Zero, or a Yak... but there are 3 or 4 N1K's high.

I just still haven't gotten the gist of your argument yet, you include bombers to prop up your point when bombers were never discussed as a problem.  You talk about my/your fighting style, again, to each his own, but not a determining factor in what you see.  Even if it was, you fly high, I fly lower, between the two of us we should have both covered.  Neither of us had killed 4 or so different plane models at the time the stats were first taken, maybe more.  The only things that fly higher than 30K are bombers  ... oh, and Citabria chasing bombers that high.  To comment that you've never gone up and only seen 2 or 3 aircraft in a furball, I bet a lot of people would argue if you allow them to discount the 1 yak (insert semi-rare plane here) that was floating low scooping up the guys that are driven to the ground.  There will also always be guys who fly their favorite kite every night, you in this case a F4U-D, bonus, and I see you've done well in it.  But remember when you look at overall kills/deaths in a plane like that, 1 guy is supporting the stats for a dozen pilots who have K/D ratios around 0.2.  Thus the reason your plane doesn't have a kill ratio the same as your stats.

I like the shift I'm seeing with more planes of different types coming back.  Still, if you want an effective ride, there seems to be a couple of select planes that can get an average pilot better results and thus there are more of those types around.  I never once whined about how people chose their rides, I choose mine my own way too.

Soda