Author Topic: Turning in a P-38L  (Read 3065 times)

Offline Soulyss

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Re: Turning in a P-38L
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2008, 07:49:06 PM »
Only thing I can say is, people have their own style, some TnB, some BnZ

I don't agree with this statement, I think that to regulate a TnB, or angles engagements to only the horizontal plane is very limiting view.  I mention it only because it seems to be a very common view that energy fighters can and should only fight by using prolonged dives and climbs without working the fight in close.  An angles fight works in three dimensions, by using the vertical in a turn the 38 can out maneuver a better "turning" aircraft if it is operating solely in the horizontal plane, just because it has a vertical component does not make it any less of an angles fight than two planes chasing their tails in the horizontal plane.   
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Offline MjTalon

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Re: Turning in a P-38L
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2008, 07:50:59 PM »
Off Topic:   I've noticed when P38 topics pop up Ack-Ack pops out of nowhere like a ninja... :devil


On Topic: My personal experience with the P38 before going Luft iron is that it's not for the average pilots. And to never fly with combat trim enabled when you're actively maneuvering with a bandit. It plays against the P38 by keeping the 38s nose trimmed down instead of up.

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Offline Murdr

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Re: Turning in a P-38L
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2008, 07:54:27 PM »
I know you MW guys see a different planeset though, would be interesting to see how you handle them

Lol.  I flew 72 tours in what is now called LW before MW even existed.  I still log more time LW anyways.

The N1K has a significantly better sustained turn radius, and a 4.5 dps sustained rate of turn advantage.  Looks like you, akak, and I agree since we've all cited pilot experience ;)

Offline grizz441

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Re: Turning in a P-38L
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2008, 08:05:20 PM »
I think it'd be cool if one of the PJ vets could list something like a Top Ten Tips in the PJ dealing with distinguishing strategy compared to basic aircraft in the game.  <Eagerly awaits>

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Turning in a P-38L
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2008, 08:19:01 PM »
I think it'd be cool if one of the PJ vets could list something like a Top Ten Tips in the PJ dealing with distinguishing strategy compared to basic aircraft in the game.  <Eagerly awaits>

Tip #1: PJs are clothing you wear to bed, not something you fly


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Offline Kazaa

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Re: Turning in a P-38L
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2008, 08:36:44 PM »
Roll yes, turn no. :aok



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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Turning in a P-38L
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2008, 09:35:28 PM »
I generally fly by feel.... watch my oponent and sometimes I react to him, sometimes I make the moves. Totally different every fight so there is no step 1..2..3.  T&B otd is much more fun that any ol' B&Z. OK Back to my margarita.....
« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 09:38:03 PM by Shuffler »
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Offline B4Buster

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Re: Turning in a P-38L
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2008, 10:01:56 PM »
T&B otd is much more fun that any ol' B&Z. OK Back to my margarita.....

I agree, why I don't BnZ much, thankfully it's  game, and can up another pixel plane after I get horded, I'd much rather just get down in "the thick of it"
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Turning in a P-38L
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2008, 11:41:33 PM »
I tend to find myself on the deck turning with Spit 16s often.  Once it gets real slow the old 38G tends to hang in there and the 16s stall out first, drop a wing and have to nose down so I can shoot em.

But then again I'm talking about the 38G which is lighter then the J/L
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Turning in a P-38L
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2008, 01:00:56 AM »
I agree, why I don't BnZ much, thankfully it's  game, and can up another pixel plane after I get horded, I'd much rather just get down in "the thick of it"


[rant]
Depends on what your definition of BnZ is.  The BnZ you see most players do is not BnZ, it's more of a Zoom and Haul Arse Because I'm a Timid Git maneuver.  BnZ by its nature is an aggressive tactic, one where you put pressure on the opponent until he's dead, not let him safely regain his energy and altitude after you've made your Zoom pass and *cough* extend for 3 sectors.  The point of BnZ is to relentlessly attack the opponent until you gain an angle for the shot by making him repeatedly break to avoid your attacks and burn his energy so that he can no longer maneuver to avoid your attack, giving you an angle for the kill shot.  Usually, the first pass is a feint designed to make the opponent break, setting you up for the following attack.  A well flown BnZ attack should take no more than 3 passes, 4 tops and that's if the attacker is 'tap dancing' on the head of the opponent to set him up for the following attack.  Nor should you extend beyond d2.0 away (unless the other guy has sufficient energy still then d2.5 should be the furthest), otherwise you give the target the opportunity to regain his energy and altitude.  In a multi-threat enviroment where you're the only good guy against 2+ bogies, there is nothing wrong with using BnZ tactics nor is anyone 'dweebish' if they use BnZ tactics properly.  Even in a 1v1 enagement where it might not be safe to lose your energy state to turn fight (i.e. close to enemy base) then BnZ is also a valid tactic.

There are also some (quite a few actually) that have absolutely no clue as to what BnZ is and think that automatically any move in the vertical is BnZ or think that you fly a certain plane that all you can do is BnZ.  There is (or was, haven't seen the twit online in a few weeks) a player in the MW that got upset at me because I wouldn't enter into a lufberry fight with him on the deck.  Instead, I used vertical turns to get inside of his better turning Hurricane IIc.  After shooting him down a few times, this caused him to get upset and claim all I can do is BnZ and not angles fight, yet none of my vertical maneuvers are ones used for BnZ nor did I have the energy to do so, I used basic vertical turns like Yo-Yo's and Chandelles.  Another time I ran into the same player and he dove on me and instantly put the fight into a downward spiral fight (nose low turns are the P-38s forté) and I was easily able to turn with him and shoot him down.  Afterwards, he started screaming how I could only BnZ, despite the fact our fight was a turn fight, just in the vertical instead of the horizontal.

I'm not saying that you don't know what BnZ is, I'm sure you've been here long enough to learn what it is.  I'm just pointing out that the majority of the community's attitude towards this tactic is born out of ignorance and there is nothing 'dweebish' for using BnZ tactics if you employ them properly. Like I said, it's an aggressive tactic and in a multi-threat enviroment can be a sight to behold watching a single plane dive and dance amongst the hord sending the ignorant masses down in flaming wrecks.
[/rant]




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« Last Edit: December 16, 2008, 01:04:14 AM by Ack-Ack »
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Turning in a P-38L
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2008, 01:12:56 AM »
Only one thing to do when AKAK gets serious, and that's to post his picture, just to show you he's been flying the 38 since he was in short pants...er....well since he was short!

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Offline MrMeaty

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Re: Turning in a P-38L
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2008, 10:43:50 PM »
basically the only planes i fly are the 190-d9 and p38-j and both of those i fly in the vertical. i never really flat turn in the 38 and i never turn in the 190. both are great vert fighters but the 38 has a clear advantage to any other fighter in the vert so thats where i keep it. also, if the fight turns into a flat turn fight i run like a pudd..


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Offline BnZs

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Re: Turning in a P-38L
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2008, 11:18:30 PM »
Credit where credit is due... :aok



[rant]
Depends on what your definition of BnZ is.  The BnZ you see most players do is not BnZ, it's more of a Zoom and Haul Arse Because I'm a Timid Git maneuver.  BnZ by its nature is an aggressive tactic, one where you put pressure on the opponent until he's dead, not let him safely regain his energy and altitude after you've made your Zoom pass and *cough* extend for 3 sectors.  The point of BnZ is to relentlessly attack the opponent until you gain an angle for the shot by making him repeatedly break to avoid your attacks and burn his energy so that he can no longer maneuver to avoid your attack, giving you an angle for the kill shot.  Usually, the first pass is a feint designed to make the opponent break, setting you up for the following attack.  A well flown BnZ attack should take no more than 3 passes, 4 tops and that's if the attacker is 'tap dancing' on the head of the opponent to set him up for the following attack.  Nor should you extend beyond d2.0 away (unless the other guy has sufficient energy still then d2.5 should be the furthest), otherwise you give the target the opportunity to regain his energy and altitude.  In a multi-threat enviroment where you're the only good guy against 2+ bogies, there is nothing wrong with using BnZ tactics nor is anyone 'dweebish' if they use BnZ tactics properly.  Even in a 1v1 enagement where it might not be safe to lose your energy state to turn fight (i.e. close to enemy base) then BnZ is also a valid tactic.

There are also some (quite a few actually) that have absolutely no clue as to what BnZ is and think that automatically any move in the vertical is BnZ or think that you fly a certain plane that all you can do is BnZ.  There is (or was, haven't seen the twit online in a few weeks) a player in the MW that got upset at me because I wouldn't enter into a lufberry fight with him on the deck.  Instead, I used vertical turns to get inside of his better turning Hurricane IIc.  After shooting him down a few times, this caused him to get upset and claim all I can do is BnZ and not angles fight, yet none of my vertical maneuvers are ones used for BnZ nor did I have the energy to do so, I used basic vertical turns like Yo-Yo's and Chandelles.  Another time I ran into the same player and he dove on me and instantly put the fight into a downward spiral fight (nose low turns are the P-38s forté) and I was easily able to turn with him and shoot him down.  Afterwards, he started screaming how I could only BnZ, despite the fact our fight was a turn fight, just in the vertical instead of the horizontal.

I'm not saying that you don't know what BnZ is, I'm sure you've been here long enough to learn what it is.  I'm just pointing out that the majority of the community's attitude towards this tactic is born out of ignorance and there is nothing 'dweebish' for using BnZ tactics if you employ them properly. Like I said, it's an aggressive tactic and in a multi-threat enviroment can be a sight to behold watching a single plane dive and dance amongst the hord sending the ignorant masses down in flaming wrecks.
[/rant]




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Offline CAP1

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Re: Turning in a P-38L
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2008, 12:06:34 AM »
I generally fly by feel.... watch my oponent and sometimes I react to him, sometimes I make the moves. Totally different every fight so there is no step 1..2..3.  T&B otd is much more fun that any ol' B&Z. OK Back to my margarita.....

i generally try to keep my lift vector pointed towards the bad guys, but it doesn't work as well in 38 vs spit for me.......yet
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Offline Anodizer

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Re: Turning in a P-38L
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2008, 12:44:43 AM »
I tend to find myself on the deck turning with Spit 16s often.  Once it gets real slow the old 38G tends to hang in there and the 16s stall out first, drop a wing and have to nose down so I can shoot em.

But then again I'm talking about the 38G which is lighter then the J/L
Yeah, seems like when full flaps are deployed and your real slow, its more like a blimp...
It just sort of floats and goes where you want it to go (more or less)..`
 
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