SdKfz 234/ series

[DREDIOCK]

To compliment the M8

234/2

- Crew: 4 (Commander, driver, gunner & loader/rear driver)
- Length: 6.80m
- Width: 2.33m
- Height: 2.38
- Armor: 6mm - 38mm (Front 30mm, Gun mantlet 38mm, Side 8mm)
- Armament: 50mm KwK 38 L/60, 1 x 7.62mm MG42
- Ammo: 55 x 50mm rounds, 1.050 x 7.62mm rounds
- Gun elevation: -10 +20 degrees


Munster SdKfz234/ 4

Weight:   11500kg
Crew:   4 men
Engine:   Tatra 103 / 12-cylinder / 220hp
Speed:   Road: 80km/h
Cross-Country: --km/h
Range:   Road: 900km
Cross-Country: ---km
Fuel Capacity:   360 litres
Lenght:   6.00m
Width:   2.40m
Height:   2.21m
Armament:   75mm PaK 40 L/46 & 7.92mm MG34/42
Ammo:   75mm - 12 rounds
Armor:   5-30mm

[SmokinLoon]

I'm not sure it offers anything the M8 wont already do.  I dont have the stats in front of me, but the 37mm US and the DE 50mm were not all that much different.

I'd vouch for the Sdkfz 251/9 instead.   

[stodd]

snip

Good idea, it would be nice for things like FSO and scenarios as well.

[DREDIOCK]

I'm not sure it offers anything the M8 wont already do.  I dont have the stats in front of me, but the 37mm US and the DE 50mm were not all that much different.

I'd vouch for the Sdkfz 251/9 instead.   

Doesnt really have to offer much different (Though the 75 MM gun variant would be nice)

Be nice to have the German versions represented.

I love the M8
Makes a dandy fast moving scout vehicle and works well to slow an enemy GV attack long enough for friendly GVs with bigger guns to arrive

One with a 75MM would fit this bill nicely

[moot]

Dred there's more to gain from a new function than from a duplicate with different camo.

[RipChord929]

I'd take'em over an M8... No doubt!

RC

[SmokinLoon]

Doesnt really have to offer much different (Though the 75 MM gun variant would be nice)

Be nice to have the German versions represented.

I love the M8
Makes a dandy fast moving scout vehicle and works well to slow an enemy GV attack long enough for friendly GVs with bigger guns to arrive

One with a 75MM would fit this bill nicely

The Puma would offer nothing different than what we already have in teh M8, imo.  That is... if it is mdeled correctly.  The Puma would still have to hit enemy tanks from the rear or a close up side shot to do good with it 5cm gun.  It would almost be like adding in another M8 but with a different paint scheme.

What we dont have is an ground vehicle specifically for support.  The 251/9 could be added with minimal coding.  The Sdkfz 251 we currently have just needs the German 7.5cm infantry support gun added and turn it loose on a town.  Think of it as an LVT4 but in halftrack mode.  I cant imagine the ballistics or destructive capabilties are all that much different than the US 75mm off the LVT4.  I think it would add in a very different aspect of teh game.  Currently, most just send in a bunch of wirlwinds and let them flatten the town.  They have to be direct where as the 251/9 or even the current LVT4 can hit buildings on the far side of the town from level ground.  Talk about indirect support.... 

that... and/or give us some type of aiming device for the rockets on our current 251.  The reason it isnt used in anything but milk runs vs strat targets is the complexity and difficulty in aiming them.  Its kinda like peein' off the dock onto the bobber: once you find the aim you're out of ammo.   

[RipChord929]

From the info I have found, the M8 wouldn't
hold a shade against the 234/2 Puma.. The 50mm
L60 was fair match against Shermans and Cromwells
till the end of the war.. But in the east, it was out
classed in PnzrIII by 1943. Although the PaK38 A/T Gun
in ambush was still deadly for the Russian tanks..

And well, the 234/4 75mm PaK40 version is
even farther out there.. Gunpower of a Pnzr IV..

234/2
30mm armor front/8mm side/20mm rear
50mm KwK L60 gun,
PzGr40 APCR ammo 3,871fps...
Penetration
82mm @ 500yds
48mm @ 1000yds

M8
19mm armor front/9mm side/9mm rear
37mm M6 gun,
APC M59 ammo 2,545fps..
Penetration,
48mm 500yds
28mm 1000yds

Many ppl think the M8 carried the same gun as
the M5 Stuart Light tank, w Hyper shot..
It didn't... M5 Stuart had the M9 37mm...
Firing APCR M80 ammo, impressive gun combo..

[E25280]

Dred there's more to gain from a new function than from a duplicate with different camo.

The difference for the 234/4 is that it had no turret and a bigger gun.  Is that different enough for you?   

All in all I would agree with your statement (which is why I think a Pershing, for example, would be redundant since we have the Tiger), but I personally think there is enough dis-similarity between the Greyhound and the German ACs to merit their inclusion.

[Anaxogoras]

Stop thinking main arena and start thinking scenario/fso.  You can't add any aircraft or vehicle to the main arena without there already being something that is similar.

[SmokinLoon]

Stop thinking main arena and start thinking scenario/fso.  You can't add any aircraft or vehicle to the main arena without there already being something that is similar.

When speaking of aircraft I agree.  When speaking of the fledgling ground game... I do not agree.  HTC needs to broaden its horizons, imo.  Adding in the Puma provides the MA with nothing it doesnt already have.  Adding in the 251/9 does.  The M8 can deliver enough dmg inside 1200 yards that any advatage the 50mm has over the US 37mm is moot.  Beyond 1200yrd, sure, the 5cm can do more.  But is it enough?  One shot from the tanks is going to cut right though it just as if it were an M8.

Stop and think what 2 or 3 of those 251/9's could do to a town from 3200yds out, especially sitting on top of a hill or ridgeline.  Forget taking in a wirby for taking out the town... use the 251/9 and its fast firing 7.5cm cannon.  That is something we do not have.

[moot]

The difference for the 234/4 is that it had no turret and a bigger gun.  Is that different enough for you?   

All in all I would agree with your statement (which is why I think a Pershing, for example, would be redundant since we have the Tiger), but I personally think there is enough dis-similarity between the Greyhound and the German ACs to merit their inclusion.

I'm thinking towed arty with support functionality from a recon GV, e.g. jeep without icon nor gun, or sidecar. Or towed anti-tank guns.

[waystin2]

This would be a welcomed vehicle.

[Big Rat]

Looking at the armor penetration value  between a 50mm L-60 (puma) and a 75mm L-48 (late panzer Iv) at close range 100 meters, they are very close. 130mm penetration for the 50mm and 143mm for the 75mm. this is tested against a 30 degree armor plate.  At 500 meters the L-60 is still able to penetrate 72mm's at 30 degrees.  The side armor of a Tiger 1 is 80mm's at 0 degrees, making me thing a Tiger 1 should be getting scared of a Puma inside 500 meters if given a side or rear shot.  The L-60 also had a very high muzzle velocity 1180 m/s, higher then even the  88 L-71's 1130 m/s, so it should be very easy to accurately fire.   I don't have specs on the M8's 37mm, to compare but I don't think it's anywhere near the same class of weapon as the L-60.

 
BigRat

[whiteman]

Stop thinking main arena and start thinking scenario/fso.  You can't add any aircraft or vehicle to the main arena without there already being something that is similar.

Be of use in the AVA also, always seems stupid to have U.S. vehicles for the Axis.