n1k film, comments please

[Tuomio]

I fought today with RZ, he in his n1k and me in 190a5. I was 25% fuel at the end, where i noticed some insane, unpredictable E holds. This isnt any cheat issue, but i just want to know, would that kind of moves be anyway possible in RL and/or did i do something wrong.

The AH film

First (im not sure, if its on film) i did 2 or 3 split-S to get him little off lead, i was amazed the rolling capabilities, which in my experience should be bad in n1k. I got him under me and was able to get higher E to evade.
The fight continued and the strange part is on the end. I kept my TAS at 400mph all the time.
He performed 2 high G turns and after the last one, which was very high (160) he zoomed after me like nothing had happened. I also noticed, that n1k waaay too little torque for that 1900hp. He had good aim all the time on the zoom, with no wobbling, whilst i had to pay lots of attention not to stall too early.

<S> to him, he got my elevator on the zoom. That was the last time i engage any n1k:s 1vs1, unless i have good reasons. You just cant trick it to anything, since you cant keep track of its E situation.

[ 06-13-2001: Message edited by: Tuomio ]

[Fatty]

I didn't see that.  You went past him with superior energy, you continued past him with superior energy, but he was able to roll into a brief shot as you pulled by.

Turn on the trails and you can watch better what he does, which is keep all his turns fairly conservative and clean, and keeps his speed up as much as possible.  If you watch how fast you pull away after/as he's hitting you, it's obvious there's no "super E" there.

[MrRiplEy]

I agree with tu0mio, the n1k reversed extremely hard without losing almost any E.

The n1k climbed like a monkey after the first pass making up the initial E superiority of the 190 in about 20 seconds.. Then reversed a couple times pulling huge g's and still was able to climb up after the 190 and shoot accurately from D1.4 at the filmers FE.

Encounters like that are exactly the reason for people puking when they see swarms of n1k's on the sky.

My opinnion has always been that the n1k doesn't climb or turn too well, it just keeps up E far too well in high-G turns. Or then the performance is accurate and the plane just performs beyond my imagination.

[Fatty]

Did you watch that with trails on?  Every turn the n1k did up to the end was a wide, gradual, clean turn.  He did them into the 190, which is what I would do too, to screw up the bounce angle, but he did so cleanly so he'd have enough left for a wild shot as the 190 passed.

As for the "gained E", you might note that the fight went from 17,500 to 10,000 feet.  In short, RZ baited tu0mio in and almost got him.

[MrRiplEy]

After looking at the fight from a different angle I have to agree the turns weren't that tight.

Still, the n1k climbed up the advantage tu0mio gained with his zoom climb real fast.

My doctrine on attacking n1ks is leave him alone if he's not dead after the second pass. If you go for third, he will have gained all the E you had on him no matter what you fly.

[Tuomio]

Yes i watched now with the trails (didnt remember them) and i now see the trick. Issue solved. =)

Edit: And that made me convinced, that the ripleys 2 pass and run is max. You just cant see, when he blows E and when not (without the trails).

[ 06-13-2001: Message edited by: Tuomio ]

[MANDOBLE]

Tuomio, the point is that, IMO, 190A/Fs are the worst zoom climbers with a wide margin. I cant find a reasonable explanation for that, but this is a fact.

For example, yesterday I (190F8) was pursuing a yak with a considerable speed advantage (about 40mph) and was gaining on him, both at level flight and near sea level alt, (d3, d2) and then the Yak broke hard to the left while I started a trimmed zoom climb to the vertical. While zooming I saw the yak ending its turn below me and starting to climb in the vertical too. D2-D1.5-D1-D600-D450, ping, ping, boom. The aproach from D2 to D450 (in my FE) was incredibily fast (max of 4 secs). I talked in private to that pilot and he told me he was light (about 25% fuel), while I was "heavy" with about 75% of fuel. My extra weight (inertia), my speed advantage, he turning 360, me doing a trimmed smooth climb etc., all factors in the 190 side, but no way. I think he was as surprised as me about the poor (almost phetid) zoom of the 190F8.

[Karnak]

MANDOBLE,

There was one factor in the Yak's favor.  Thrust to weight ratio.

This would have caused him to decelerate at a slower rate.  Only the initial part of a zoom climb is based on inertia.

[Tuomio]

The yak with 25% of fuel is just mad B&Z plane. Ive found myself always in trouble with yaks, except when im in yak too. That plane should be merged with good setup and care, since it can do almost everything better than you. Only flaw is the fuel burn rate on MA which makes it only one way ticket to enemy territory.
The situation that you described is possible, couse you had that much weight on you (inertia from plane weight with low HP is bad combination).

I recall only p51 being hard one for yak, since it can run away from it. Every other plane with lower or co-E is piece of cake (except good pilot in it) if the flight continues 1vs1.

Btw, i find every other 190, except a5, to be bad plane on every task (dora, lol!). a8 and f8 blow the hard gained E away in seconds, no matter how you try to preserve it. a5 has atleast little chance of evading the higher E opponent.

[MANDOBLE]

Well, those planes have a well below 1.0 P/W ratio, so this, IMO, is not as important in a vertical zoom as initial speed and weight. Obviously, the drag is a main factor here, and it was in the Yak side. But that yak was considerably slower and performed a 360g turn before going vertical with more than 2000 yards of separation with the 190.

[ispar]

Originally posted by MANDOBLE:
Well, those planes have a well below 1.0 P/W ratio, so this, IMO, is not as important in a vertical zoom as initial speed and weight. Obviously, the drag is a main factor here, and it was in the Yak side. But that yak was considerably slower and performed a 360g turn before going vertical with more than 2000 yards of separation with the 190.

Physics don't depend upon your opinion.

[juzz]

LOL, you tell him ispar!  

[Yeager]

Just remember...its a game.

Ive been flying the N1K this past week and all Im gonna say is: very nice game piece.

Y