P-38's Mossie and 110's

[Scherf]

I did a rough count of my Mosquito stuff - I've been able to identify 146 losses to enemy aircraft in all theatres, and 159 to flak. However, there's 400-odd still just listed as "Missing". Given the state of research into Luftwaffe air-to-air claims, I'd be willing to bet the most of the missing Mossies were accounted for by flak.

The coastal strike aircraft in particular seem to have had a hard time - not surprising really.

[Karnak]

The thing that it feels like in AH is that the larger volume of empty space in these aircraft doesn't seem to be accounted for.  Whereas in a Spitfire the pilot pretty much filled the cockpit in a Mosquito's cockpit there was a significant amount of "non-pilot" for the round to travel through.

[Scherf]

Bah, belay my last, I'd set up the columns incorrectly in some cases.

Should be:
Mosquitos definitely lost to aircraft: 159
Mosquitos definitely lost to flak:      235 (includes from ships, uboats, etc)
Not yet clarified:                          371

This is a work in progress - I know for a fact I've not yet adressed some of the Banff wing losses in 1945, mostly flak.

[moot]

I recall that story...  Excellent reading!

Now, as you say and I'm sure history will prove it out...  Ground attack against a well defended target such as a factory, capitol, or airbase was indeed murderous.  And for those very same reasons you mentioned; the sheer number of guns shooting.

By that same assessment then, would you agree that every plane in the game should be hit with equal chance as nailing a buff at 6.5k.

Any data that ack fire in AH is wrong, anecdotic evidence aside?

[Delirium]

If anything, from all the accounts I've read attacking an airfield in AH is far safer than attacking one in Germany in 44/45. They had more guns, some radar controlled, and heavier ones as well.

[trigger2]

If anything, from all the accounts I've read attacking an airfield in AH is far safer than attacking one in Germany in 44/45. They had more guns, some radar controlled, and heavier ones as well.

Probably true, as they went down, they didn't hit the SW button and get a new plane...
BUT we're not arguing and comparing with RL, what we're saying is that the p-38 seem to have an ack-magnet on them in the game, whereas planes only slightly smaller (i.e. p51) can rage through a CV group, drop bombs and rockets, and maybe need a new paint job...

Our arguments in game, not IRL.

[moot]

Where is your supporting evidence?

[trigger2]

Where is your supporting evidence?

The experiance and cries of the many fine sticks here... Should be enough.

[Bronk]

The experiance and cries of the many fine sticks here... Should be enough.

NO it shouldn't. Too many biases.

[Karnak]

NO it shouldn't. Too many biases.

How would you suggest it be tested?  Players don't have any way to run controlled tests on this.  All we can do is say that something seems to be a bit off to us and let HTC decide if there is anything wrong.  They do have the tools to test it.

[Krusty]

It's not a matter of how hard they hit fighters.

It's a problem with the inconsistencies in how Hitech has described the system "should" work vs how it "really" works (compare bombers vs fighters, he describes it SHOULD theoretically hit them many times over, but in fact they are all but untouched, whilst faster manuvering fighters get the majority of lethal hits)

THAT, to me, is the key issue. Bombers skate through at 10k unharmed after multiple passes, whereas a fighter pulling 6 Gs twisting and turning while diving from 27k to 20k and takes multiple hits, eventually being killed.

[Bronk]

How would you suggest it be tested?  Players don't have any way to run controlled tests on this.  All we can do is say that something seems to be a bit off to us and let HTC decide if there is anything wrong.  They do have the tools to test it.

Off line, standard ma settings, multiple passes with all AC and at diff alts. Then check the number of hits on each.
You up for it?

[Krusty]

I have not been killed by auto-puffy ack in a bomber since around 2000 or 2001. Not counting manned 5".

On the other hand I've had a 262 at over 25k doing 500mph get popped on the second hit over a barracks strat or some such thing in the MA. Just one of many many countless personal observations.

It just doesn't work the way HT says it does. He needs to recode it from scratch as to how it determines what is hit and when.

[Karnak]

Off line, standard ma settings, multiple passes with all AC and at diff alts. Then check the number of hits on each.
You up for it?

Given that you'd have to do 1000+ passes in exactly the same path, exactly same speed for each aircraft to get meaningful data, no.

Besides, my concern isn't with the number of hits, but rather the effect of the hits.

[HighTone]

That said, the propensity for P38s to suffer pilot wounds is higher than it should be imho.

I agree again