F4U-4

[SgtPappy]

I just wish it entered service earlier to make a huge impact... would've really blown the japanese away!

[Big Rat]

I love the F4U's, and fly them a lot, but the -4 is a different animal.  You can almost forget the limitations that you learned flying the earlier F4u's, becouse the -4 has addressed them.  I think it has earned it's perk rating.

 
BigRat

[BaldEagl]

I'm not a big F4U fan but even I think the F4U-4 is the best plane in the game.  It really does have it all.

[ink]

I dont know, I took it up got 4 killz, but I had the advantage of ALT(not numbers), IT like every other plane, I have a difficult time hitting. so you wont see me in one often.
  I still have no concern of them while in my Hurri.
 

[Bronk]

I dont know, I took it up got 4 killz, but I had the advantage of ALT(not numbers), IT like every other plane, I have a difficult time hitting. so you wont see me in one often.
  I still have no concern of them while in my Hurri.
 

The problem you are having is .... speed. Everything happens faster in just about every other AC. That is your problem. With AC like the hurri/A6M series everything is slowed down . I'm betting most of the ac you are shooting are slowing to turn fight with you. Once slowed shots are easier to line up and you get in closer.

When you get into a fight with someone who knows what they are doing this is what happens (correct me if I am wrong).

They start going up, staying just out of reach. Slowly, you have less and less E to chase them up with. Eventually you end up on the deck unable to dive to recover any E. Then you no longer can loop and start mushing through the turns. That's when ya get popped.

This is not a hit on you ink, just an observation of what I have experienced playing ... both sides of the above. IMHO take some lumps and learn the faster AC.   Doing this can only help both your offensive and defensive tactics.

[Saxman]

I agree with Bronk's analysis. Shot opportunities in the F4U are generally short and come up on you quick since she's best flown more open and at higher speeds (250+ TAS. Any slower than that I find makes you too vulnerable in anything other than a 1v1 situation. Even then I prefer to keep her faster). The Hurricane's slow speed and maneuverability really promotes saddling up for tracking shots, especially in the Hurri I with her .303s. In the F4U you often don't have that luxury, which means a LOT of snapshots. I'd probably say about 70-80% of the shot opportunities I get against maneuvering targets in the F4U are shots from the hip, often at poor deflection angles. I rarely have sustained tracking shots unless it's a pursuit situation (bad guy running, saddled on a friendly con, or just doesn't see me coming) or I'm in a one-on-one engagement where I have the luxury of getting slow enough to create one.

[ink]

The problem you are having is .... speed. Everything happens faster in just about every other AC. That is your problem. With AC like the hurri/A6M series everything is slowed down . I'm betting most of the ac you are shooting are slowing to turn fight with you. Once slowed shots are easier to line up and you get in closer.

When you get into a fight with someone who knows what they are doing this is what happens (correct me if I am wrong).

They start going up, staying just out of reach. Slowly, you have less and less E to chase them up with. Eventually you end up on the deck unable to dive to recover any E. Then you no longer can loop and start mushing through the turns. That's when ya get popped.

This is not a hit on you ink, just an observation of what I have experienced playing ... both sides of the above. IMHO take some lumps and learn the faster AC.   Doing this can only help both your offensive and defensive tactics.

what you describe actually does not happen,especially when its 1vs1
I will only follow someone up if I have the E, Usually what happens when I face someone  in those type planes they get frustrated, because they cant hit me, I have learned to avoid there shots, and hold my E as best as possible, and eventually they will give up a shot to me, now when I am against someone who really knows there ride, it will end allot of times as a stale mate, unless they are very good shots, and the way I fly to set up that rear shot I will give up a gun solution to them, but only rarely do I get hit, if they do hit me I know they are a good shot, I have had many, many, AHers PM me about the things I do in my Hurri, how "there is no way the hurri could do that..." and such like that. seriously I have been a TnB fighter since I came to Aces High, it is what I enjoy the most, the faster planes just dont, have the same ability as the hurri,in this aspect.
  I have flown every "fighter" in game and gotten killz in them all, but the turning ability,and power of the cannons keep me coming back to the Hurri,  and the fact that I can actually hit in it. makes me stay.
this screen shot is from last night, as you can see in it there are four cons on my 6, they all died, they only way I was able to do that was because of the hurri.








and I was wrong I did not get 4 killz in the -u4 it was 3

 

[Widewing]

what you describe actually does not happen,especially when its 1vs1
I will only follow someone up if I have the E, Usually what happens when I face someone  in those type planes they get frustrated, because they cant hit me, I have learned to avoid there shots, and hold my E as best as possible, and eventually they will give up a shot to me, now when I am against someone who really knows there ride, it will end allot of times as a stale mate, unless they are very good shots, and the way I fly to set up that rear shot I will give up a gun solution to them, but only rarely do I get hit, if they do hit me I know they are a good shot, I have had many, many, AHers PM me about the things I do in my Hurri, how "there is no way the hurri could do that..." and such like that. seriously I have been a TnB fighter since I came to Aces High, it is what I enjoy the most, the faster planes just dont, have the same ability as the hurri,in this aspect.
  I have flown every "fighter" in game and gotten killz in them all, but the turning ability,and power of the cannons keep me coming back to the Hurri,  and the fact that I can actually hit in it. makes me stay.
this screen shot is from last night, as you can see in it there are four cons on my 6, they all died, they only way I was able to do that was because of the hurri. and I was wrong I did not get 4 killz in the -u4 it was 3

I think that the point people have been alluding to is that the Hurricane is an easy fighter to defeat. Very easy if you have a significant advantage in E at the outset. Noobs and low-skill players will demonstrate their ignorance by attempting to maneuver with the Hurricane at low speed. That's a sucker's game. Why fight the way the Hurricane fights best? Instead, use your speed to get above the Hurri. Break down the Hurricane's E until all it's on the deck with no E remaining and all he can do is level turn to evade. At that point, it's over.

BnZ and I did a little exercise at his request. BnZ is a pretty good stick, so keep that in mind. He was flying a Hurricane IIC and I had a 190A-5. He wanted to practice evading a faster, higher fighter. I set up and rolled in. I was able to get guns on the Hurricane just about every time. Yet, he was unable to counter - for two reasons. One, I wouldn't allow him enough E to maneuver vertically. Two, I always pulled off on a reciprocal heading (relative to the Hurricane). It wasn't as if BnZ was doing anything incorrectly. He simply didn't have any options once he was out of E. When you are out of E, your aspect changes very little when you evade. The loss of all ability to significantly change relative aspect is what gets you dead. If you don't evade smartly, you'll be dead. Yet, every time you reef it around hard, you burn off air speed. Sooner or later, you'll be too slow to prevent the inevitable.

I'm no stranger to the Hurricane. I've landed as many as 18 kills, all air to air on two rearms.

Stop by the TA any week day evening and I''l be happy to demonstrate the above. Not to prove anything beyond what most should already know. Speed defeats low-speed maneuverability every time. If it didn't, the Hurricane would have remained a front line fighter beyond 1941 rather than fade into its overdue obsolescence.

My regards,

Widewing

[Saxman]

One key to what WW is saying is how far the faster plane extends. If he goes out 5-6k before coming back he's just giving you time to regain your lost E, which lets you drag the fight out into a stalemate. The guys you gotta watch out for are the ones who only extend out about 2-3k (ESPECIALLY vertical separation) to reset and reverse in as soon as they're in position. They'll wear you down quick, and no matter how well you can ride the stall they're gonna get you barring a serious mistake on their part.

From what you've described it sounds like you're accustomed to dealing with the former sort.

[B4Buster]

I liked Widewing's key point there. He basically said 'Don't fight your enemy's fight"

I get a kick out of the guys that will be flying Hurris (or other "easymode" turning planes) and get mad when I E fight them in my 38. They should stop and think about what they're flying  Suicide to turn with a Hurri

Edit: Thought this was about the -4 

[Karnak]

In my highest kill sortie I had in a Ki-84 I killed a Hurricane Mk IIc using the tactics Widewing described after I ran out of cannon ammo, easily.  The Hurri was helpless before the Ki-84.

[ink]

I liked Widewing's key point there. He basically said 'Don't fight your enemy's fight"

I get a kick out of the guys that will be flying Hurris (or other "easymode" turning planes) and get mad when I E fight them in my 38. They should stop and think about what they're flying  Suicide to turn with a Hurri

Edit: Thought this was about the -4 

I never get mad when people dont try to turn fight my hurri or fight my fight, heck if they do they DIE, and if someone can kill me when im in my hurri with the same ALT, he deserves my respect, However he did it, I know what I can do in the Hurri, and 99% of 1vs1 I will win, even if they try the tactics with which WW descibes, they have to get to my level to kill me, and when they do that, well I also have the oppertunity to kill them.

I think that the point people have been alluding to is that the Hurricane is an easy fighter to defeat. Very easy if you have a significant advantage in E at the outset. Noobs and low-skill players will demonstrate their ignorance by attempting to maneuver with the Hurricane at low speed. That's a sucker's game. Why fight the way the Hurricane fights best? Instead, use your speed to get above the Hurri. Break down the Hurricane's E until all it's on the deck with no E remaining and all he can do is level turn to evade. At that point, it's over.

BnZ and I did a little exercise at his request. BnZ is a pretty good stick, so keep that in mind. He was flying a Hurricane IIC and I had a 190A-5. He wanted to practice evading a faster, higher fighter. I set up and rolled in. I was able to get guns on the Hurricane just about every time. Yet, he was unable to counter - for two reasons. One, I wouldn't allow him enough E to maneuver vertically. Two, I always pulled off on a reciprocal heading (relative to the Hurricane). It wasn't as if BnZ was doing anything incorrectly. He simply didn't have any options once he was out of E. When you are out of E, your aspect changes very little when you evade. The loss of all ability to significantly change relative aspect is what gets you dead. If you don't evade smartly, you'll be dead. Yet, every time you reef it around hard, you burn off air speed. Sooner or later, you'll be too slow to prevent the inevitable.

I'm no stranger to the Hurricane. I've landed as many as 18 kills, all air to air on two rearms.

Stop by the TA any week day evening and I''l be happy to demonstrate the above. Not to prove anything beyond what most should already know. Speed defeats low-speed maneuverability every time. If it didn't, the Hurricane would have remained a front line fighter beyond 1941 rather than fade into its overdue obsolescence.

My regards,

Widewing

WIDEWING I have been looking forward to duking it out with ya, I love testing my Hurri against better planes, and when the stick that drives them is AWESOME it makes for that much better of a fight.
Also any plane is easy to defeat when you have a "significant advantage in E".
  YES I know speed defeats a low speed maneuverability,in TRW, but in AH its a -game- about fighting and 99% of fights turn into a TnB fight. and the ones that fly those fast planes usually just end up running away from me, when they relize I am to hard to hit and if they keep trying they will die.
 to prove my point
so far this month I have 40 killz against the 51d, when they only killed me 5 times.
not one of my killz are Vulches, or a bunch of friendlies on one con, because if one friendly is on a con I do not engage unless the friendly calls for help.
anyways this was sapposed to be about the f4, <S> sorry

WW, I will look for ya in TA.

JETSOM

[Karnak]

Ink, if the faster plane is aggressive then it really does work.  In my Ki-84 vs Hurri IIc fight I never got more than 1500-2000 yards from the Hurri.  He was helpless.

If the faster plane is one of the "extend" to 5000 or 6000 yard weenies, then no, it doesn't work.


The same rules work here as in reality.  E can be bled off just the same.

[BnZs]

Actually Widewing, what I more wanted to see was how to shoot down a much better turning fighter with E tactics. The answer was: Be a heck of alot better at odd-angle snapshots than I am.  What can I say, life is hard when you got to fly right up their tailpipe to get 'em.

But anyway, I suppose THAT is the reason why for some players shooting down an old kite with a late-war brick is a cakewalk and some of us would rather fight a P-51D any day of the week.

HurriC does always have ONE option. It pretty much sucks, but it's there. Keep E, and turn to face them and shoot every time the other fighter approaches. I consider that unproductive, but I've run into a lot of HurriIIc drivers who will start doing that on you, saves headaches to just go find someone else to pick on.

Frankly, in real-world terms I think speed defeated turn radius not so much because it is easy to win something like a 190 vs. Hurri dogfight, but because most kills were the product of seeing first and approaching unseen, and the typical "energy fighter" tactic in use was that very same "one pass, haul ass" we've been prevaricating against. You can't shoot what you can't catch, and you can't keep a perfect lookout against large numbers of faster fighters which might be able to go from barely visible to firing range very quickly.

I think that the point people have been alluding to is that the Hurricane is an easy fighter to defeat. Very easy if you have a significant advantage in E at the outset. Noobs and low-skill players will demonstrate their ignorance by attempting to maneuver with the Hurricane at low speed. That's a sucker's game. Why fight the way the Hurricane fights best? Instead, use your speed to get above the Hurri. Break down the Hurricane's E until all it's on the deck with no E remaining and all he can do is level turn to evade. At that point, it's over.

BnZ and I did a little exercise at his request. BnZ is a pretty good stick, so keep that in mind. He was flying a Hurricane IIC and I had a 190A-5. He wanted to practice evading a faster, higher fighter. I set up and rolled in. I was able to get guns on the Hurricane just about every time. Yet, he was unable to counter - for two reasons. One, I wouldn't allow him enough E to maneuver vertically. Two, I always pulled off on a reciprocal heading (relative to the Hurricane). It wasn't as if BnZ was doing anything incorrectly. He simply didn't have any options once he was out of E. When you are out of E, your aspect changes very little when you evade. The loss of all ability to significantly change relative aspect is what gets you dead. If you don't evade smartly, you'll be dead. Yet, every time you reef it around hard, you burn off air speed. Sooner or later, you'll be too slow to prevent the inevitable.

I'm no stranger to the Hurricane. I've landed as many as 18 kills, all air to air on two rearms.

Stop by the TA any week day evening and I''l be happy to demonstrate the above. Not to prove anything beyond what most should already know. Speed defeats low-speed maneuverability every time. If it didn't, the Hurricane would have remained a front line fighter beyond 1941 rather than fade into its overdue obsolescence.

My regards,

Widewing

[SmokinLoon]

See Rule #14