Need New Stick - Hotas Cougar or CH?

[jedi25]

Guys, Iam in need of a new stick -  need your expert advise on whether to go Hotas Cougar or CH.

Don't even mention Saitek me   

Now which is better?

Input will be appreciated..  Jedi

[The Fugitive]

I've never messed with a Cougar, but from what I understand, its a CH unit with less plastic parts, more metal. The idea being that it is tougher, as well as it should last longer, no sloppyness in the feel and such.

On the other hand, the CH stuff I have I have had for years with almost no trouble. First set I had for over 5 years and only upgraded to the USB set because the MB I upgraded to didn't supply enough voltage to the DIM plugs and I kept getting "No keyboard" errors. The new USB after a couple of years had one of the hat buttons start to get flaky, so I swapped it out with one from the old analog stick. Other than that the CH stuff if very tough.

Now, do you want to spend the extra money for "super tough" or just go with the "tough" CH stuff? 

[wabbit]

  I've owned nothing but Thrustmaster sticks, since the F22 came out, years ago. 

  The cougar is Super tough, it has a two-year warranty and although sometimes, that heavy french accent can be difficult to understand, their techs are responsive and quick to get problems solved.

   I've had one switch on my cougar's throttle break, cause I dropped it,(After almost a year and a-half, and thrustmaster sent me another one free of charge. It took about a week or so to get it. I mentioned that another switch felt funny and they sent one of those also. Nice!

   Although I love my cougar, it has one minor flaw, which is a small almost unoticable center play. For most people this isn't a problem and many don't even notice it. I did, so my buddy and I upgraded the internal Joystick gimbal to the U2NXT and acquired hall-effect sensors to replace the pots in the Joystick. It can take 3-4 months to get all the parts in from cubby and from Ian in Australia, but we both think it was well worth it. No more center play and No spiking, what-so-ever!

   This doesn't mean you have to go out and get the upgrade. Most cougar users run just fine with the standard Cougar. Besides, the ugrade is around $100.00 for the Hall-effect sensors and $450.00 for the gimbal upgrade. Quite expensive, but you will end up with a joystick and throttle that should last you a very long time.

   The cougar is constructed of metal, with a few exceptions and is very rugged. Programming is easy if you use the built-in tutorials in Foxy, (the programing software), and it can also be programmed from inside Aces High, (my buddy does it that way - I use Foxy).

   The Cougar doesn't, however, come with rudder pedals. Thrustmaster's attempt at building rudder pedals never amounted to much, IMHO, and they've discontinued them. For Rudders, I use the CH PRO USB Rudders. They are excellent and very rugged, especially since they use a lot of plastic. My only complaint would be spiking that can become a problem in later life of the rudders. Mine are a little over a year-and-a-half old and spiking is now becoming a problem. I would love to replace the pots with Hall-Effect sensors, but nobody is offering that option and I haven't had the time to research doing it myself yet.


   All-in-all, if you want the best, (IMHO), then go with the Cougar and the CH Pro USB Rudders. If you want to save the bucks and still have an exceptional setup, then go with CH.


Wabb

[TilDeath]

I have a CH throttle that is going on 10 years pedals that are 8 o 10 years old and 568 stick over 3 years old.  I like CH, you can get parts (almost all) they also have a 2 year warranty.  I am a reseller of CH get with me and I can give you pricing.

[jedi25]

Well said guys, thanks alot for your input..

I already have a Saitek Rudder Pedal, just need to know which of the two joysticks were better.

Was planning on getting the Cougar and no intention of modding it...too expensive...

Tildeath, if I go with the CH i give you a buzz.....


Thanks guys...  <S>

[wabbit]

Here are some links for Cougar info, etc, etc, you might be interested in.

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/forumdisplay.php?s=a9a5ca81756db5f8494839f0836f184e&f=8

http://webpages.charter.net/davegun/Cougar.htm

http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/

http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/warranty_parts.php



When I got my Cougar, there were a some minor production problems that a new Cougar owner needed to check. I doubt they're still a problem, but just-in-case, here's a link for setting up a new Cougar.

http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/faqinstall.php

In the installation instructions, the author mentions these problems and how to find out if your Cougar has them. Besides, that, it's an excellent 'Setup' guide for the Cougar.


Enjoy!


Wabb

[llama]

There's "best" and then there's "best."

There's no doubt that the Thrustmaster Cougar has the potential to be the best flight hardware out there, but it may require a lot of tinkering, time, and money.

I am of the opinion that when you spend $300 on a Cougar, the pots should last for years and be very precise, and the gimbals should be free of any slop or play, but this is not always the case. You can then spend another $400 fixing these problems and have a stick that should last for 10 years and is as accurate a model of the real flight hardware in F-16s and F-22s you can buy. A fully-modded Cougar is a thing of beauty.

Or you can spend a fraction of this money and get a great set of CH gear. Yes, the CH stuff is more plasticy and toy-like in comparison, but it feels good, moves smoothly, works well, and should also last many many years. Plus CH products knows how to support them and offers parts for any home-repairs you may need.

Personally, if I had to buy new flight gear right now, I would buy a full CH setup and use the money I saved to go to the AH Con or something.

-Llama

[Spatula]

There's "best" and then there's "best."

There's no doubt that the Thrustmaster Cougar has the potential to be the best flight hardware out there, but it may require a lot of tinkering, time, and money.

I am of the opinion that when you spend $300 on a Cougar, the pots should last for years and be very precise, and the gimbals should be free of any slop or play, but this is not always the case. You can then spend another $400 fixing these problems and have a stick that should last for 10 years and is as accurate a model of the real flight hardware in F-16s and F-22s you can buy. A fully-modded Cougar is a thing of beauty.

Or you can spend a fraction of this money and get a great set of CH gear. Yes, the CH stuff is more plasticy and toy-like in comparison, but it feels good, moves smoothly, works well, and should also last many many years. Plus CH products knows how to support them and offers parts for any home-repairs you may need.

Personally, if I had to buy new flight gear right now, I would buy a full CH setup and use the money I saved to go to the AH Con or something.

-Llama

x2 what llama said.

[jedi25]

I appreciate your input guys...I have doing some intensive investigation on the cougar and CH products.

Hoping to make a decision sometime in late January 2009.


 

[flatiron1]

here is link to post I started about a month ago when I was getting ready to replace my logitech 3d pro.


http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,252509.0.html


biggest difference I see with my new ch fighterstick is how loose the stick is, the larger amount of throw (at least double of my logitech} and getting use to the 8 way hat location. But now that I have got used to the ch  I love it.


got mine for 100,oo from amazon which included free shipping. Last time I looked it had gone up to 108.00

[Reschke]

I don't recommend an X-52 from Saitek. I can't stand the way it just flips all over the place and the profile software they (Saitek) have (I tend to fly more flight sims than just AH) just isn't as robust or good to work with as the Foxy software that comes with the Cougar or the stuff that CH bangs out.

I have that now as a stop gap measure since I didn't want to spend more than about $60 bucks on a cheap setup until I am able to get my U2NXT gimbals and HE sensors from IJ and Cubpilot for my Cougar. I have owned just about every setup there has been and I loved my Cougar until I got to the point that I couldn't stand the way it felt in the center.

Bottom line is to get something that works good FOR YOU! It sounds like you don't want to spend the dollars on the Cougar to get it in top flight condition. I have had my Cougar since it was first released with no issues other than a firmware version frying the original pots in it but I wasn't the only one that had the problem. In fact I helped TM diagnose the issue and tested about 10 different firmware versions in a week for them before we narrowed the problem down to pots being toasted. Anyway back to the point. Spend the money on the CH gear and you will be happy. Spend the money on the Cougar and you will be in love. Waste the money on Saitek and you will be buying something else in about a year.

[jedi25]

I am already in love with the cougar...Gonna invest the money and get me one plus the U2 NXT and Hall Sensor.

I am impress with the Foxy, best I have seen so far... I have already setup both TMJ and TMM files with graphical layout and the whole nine yards.

Just image guys, flying and I don't even have to use the keybroad only for texting your buddies and squaddies 

[wabbit]

Make sure you order a couple of extra springs when you order your U2NXT. My buddie and I ordered 1 each and we've both lost a spring in the year since the upgrade.

I just lost my second spring, so I went to Ace Hardware and found a spring that, so far, seems to work, for only 1.29 ea. The spring is a little bigger in diameter. It works fine for now until I can find something closer to the original ones that came with the U2NXT.

If I locate a better/cheaper spring, I'll post in the forum.


Wabb

P.S. You're gonna love yer U2NXT.

[oboe]

I have owned a HOTAS Cougar for quite a while, and have gone through the typical troubles TM owners have - spiking pots (which I just take apart and clean myself), burned out throttle pot from upgrading firmware without detaching the throttle, excessive centerplay, worn out hat-switches, etc.

Despite the troubles, its the only stick I can see myself using - I like the feel of the heavy springs; it seems more realistic to me.  Tech support has been adequate and the user group at Frugals is great.

I also have owned and used the same set of TM Elite rudder pedals since '98.   No complaints with the durability here.   

[Wingnutt]

HOTAS cougar owner here.  Love it..

I opted for the HS2mk2 kit, $160 keep the same mechanicals, but the stock pots are replaced with Hall Effect sensors which are non-contact and thus non wearing so will last (theoretically) forever.

the cougar is all metal... REALLY all metal.. the stick, all the buttons.. EVERYTHING.  anything else feels like a cheap toy.. its about 5x stiffer than any other stick out there.. but no need for suction cups to keep it planted, the cougar weighs 22 pounds.

even in totally stock form its amazing, add to that the fact that there are a myriad of upgrades and mods you can do to it.. its a hard setup to beat.