Cherry Picker

[Murdr]

No one can do that. You have to get involved to get kills. Getting involved means making yourself vulnerable to some degree. People who ONLY sit on a perch and look for picks end up flying home kill-less 95% of the time or kill so infrequently as to render themselves tactically insignificant...

I'm tempted to reply, but I bet 95% of readers are on the same page as I, so is it really worth it?  The point being that those who spend too much time avoiding trouble will have little experience with knowing what to do when trouble finds them.

[VonMessa]

What would AH gameplay be like if everyone only chose to fight from an advantage?  (I hope the point came across loud and clear)

Point definitely taken.

My point is that we send the noobs to see you guys (the trainers) or refer them to resources such as Kylander's write-up or Dicta Boelcke which the first rule (something I'm sure we all know) is

1.Try to secure the upper hand before attacking. If possible, keep the sun behind you:


But then we call them pickers.

[Guppy35]

I'm always at a maneuverability disadvantage. Not many aircraft commonly flown in the LW MA maneuver more poorly in general than the Typhoon. Truly, for example, if there's 10 of my team vs. 20 of the other team and they're getting close to vulch light green on my field, me cherrypicking the living crap out of the 20 enemy is doing my 10 brave lads a favor...

Just for kicks I checked your score.  Last big tour was 106 I believe.  530 + kills and 32 deaths.  All kills in the air were Tiffie, about 200 some were ship gunner or flak.

Zaz you aren't pushing the edge much that way.  Again if it's what you enjoy, go for it, but I'm hard pressed to see how you ever put yourself at a disadvantage with those numbers.

[B4Buster]

The point being that those who spend too much time avoiding trouble will have little experience with knowing what to do when trouble finds them.

+1!! I say it all the time, people don't like to listen. That's signature material

[Zazen13]

I'm tempted to reply, but I bet 95% of readers are on the same page as I, so is it really worth it?  The point being that those who spend too much time avoiding trouble will have little experience with knowing what to do when trouble finds them.

Can't argue with that. I see people trying to do that. Just the other night someone was doing that in a Pony. I watched him the entire time, from the point he entered the fight area all the way to when he returned to base and landed. No kills. He made a dozen or so half-arsed passes at people, but never even pinged anyone that I could tell. He was a complete non-factor in the engagement, the most he did was force one guy to break off someone for a few seconds. I think it's people like that who give cherrypicking a bad name, because like a blind squirrel they do find a nut now and then, it would suck to be that 1 kill an hour "nut" they found.

But, trust me as one who has refined cherrypicking to an artform and proud of it, you have to get involved to cherrypick effectively, when you get involved you have an excellent chance of finding yourself at a disadvantage. I am proud to be a "true" cherrypicker, I even made Xargos make me a special Muppets avatar that said, "das Muppets Cherrypicker". Done correctly cherrypicking is a thing of beauty. It's the people that don't do it correctly that burn the candle at both ends, both failing to kill and failing to learn because they are so reluctant to get involved they never actually fight. But, those folks evolve eventually, they either adapt and learn, or get frustrated and do something else.

[Guppy35]

Is it therefore a "sin" to fight only from an advantage?

As i've already said a couple times.  A 'picker' needs folks like me down on the deck, fighting it out, for their game to exist.  Without us, there is nothing to pick.   Those of us mixing it up down low, can exist without the pickers just fine.  They add nothing to the fight other then an interruption.

Again, if that's how you get your kicks, it's your dime and your time, but until we start really dying, only flying with the advantage is the easy way out.  And that I'll never understand as I believe the benefit of an online flight sim where you can put yourself up against other people, should involve actually engaging those folks in the virtual air.

[Shuffler]

The term "Fight" must have a truely wider meaning.

[Zazen13]

Just for kicks I checked your score.  Last big tour was 106 I believe.  530 + kills and 32 deaths.  All kills in the air were Tiffie, about 200 some were ship gunner or flak.

Zaz you aren't pushing the edge much that way.  Again if it's what you enjoy, go for it, but I'm hard pressed to see how you ever put yourself at a disadvantage with those numbers.

I know you've flown around me enough to know the myth of how I fly is not the reality. I am low and slow a lot, I just pick the correct time and place to do it, it just isn't anytime and anyplace. Don't assume just because I have a high k/d that I don't fight. I'm an 18 year vet that took to this like a duck to water right from the beginning, who has mastered a single plane to a fine edge and loathes to give up my pelt.

Take a look at my sheet this camp after 4 months off to be with my ailing newborn son, my K/D is the worst it's ever been as my gunnery, timing and SA are badly rusted. I am flying no differently than I ever have, I am just rusty and have lost the edge. So, my stats this tour are a reasonable comparison to someone without my decades of experience and intense familiarity with my bird of choice.

[Lusche]

As i've already said a couple times.  A 'picker' needs folks like me down on the deck, fighting it out, for their game to exist.  Without us, there is nothing to pick.

I may speak as a typical "picker": Most people I pick are not "furballers" like you - the majority of my kills are the pure landgrab guys. Bombers, Jugs, Tiffies, F4Us, NOE missions ib to flatten my base. There is a great number of guys waiting to get picked that are not looking for a low and slow exciting turnfight at all

[Zazen13]

As i've already said a couple times.  A 'picker' needs folks like me down on the deck, fighting it out, for their game to exist.  

Honestly, most of my victims are other pickers. Any good cherrypicker takes the top-down approach. You kill the fastest and highest E state bandits first because they are the ones that can run you down as you egress. Only after they are all dead would I resort to cherrying low n' slow turny birds. They are much harder targets and make me more vulnerable to new enemy entrants to the fight area that would then have an E advantage over me.

[Murdr]

Honestly, most of my victims are other pickers. Any good cherrypicker takes the top-down approach. You kill the fastest and highest E state bandits first because they are the ones that can run you down as you egress. Only after they are all dead would I resort to cherrying low n' slow turny birds. They are much harder targets and make me more vulnerable to new enemy entrants to the fight area that would then have an E advantage over me.

Yep.  I had an inkling to post something like that.  Eventually I expect to be OTD in the furball, but in regards to threat assessment upon finding a furball, the existing pickers are my first targets.

[-pjk--]

Amen zazen
"Picker" allways starts from top/highest energy  target and go lower and if enought targets t&b before  out of ammo/fuel and rtb.
Other pickers are the best kills you can get

[Saxman]

Honestly, most of my victims are other pickers. Any good cherrypicker takes the top-down approach. You kill the fastest and highest E state bandits first because they are the ones that can run you down as you egress. Only after they are all dead would I resort to cherrying low n' slow turny birds. They are much harder targets and make me more vulnerable to new enemy entrants to the fight area that would then have an E advantage over me.

There's a very good point to be made here regarding controlling airspace, and you CAN'T do that if you're going in at 5k to jump in the pile on the deck, because guaranteed you're bound to have a bunch of red coming in high.

Case in point: on Saturday myself, a couple squaddies and some others were working over a base attempting to make a capture. Eventually we gained air-superiority over the target area with most of the remaining enemy down low. After egressing out of the fight to come back with ordinance for town I watched on DAR as a large group of enemy aircraft upped one base further back, and I can guarantee you they weren't thinking of coming back in join the furball on the deck. All our planes were down low dealing with the last of the cons and no one was at altitude to intercept the new wave. Guess what happened next?

I'm going to come in at altitude. Period. When I have control of the situation I don't come in lower than 15k because I'm not going to get caught flat-footed against high Ponies and Tempests. I'm going to meet them on equal ground where I can force them in close. But if I see a red plane I kill it. It doesn't matter a damn to me if I'm jumping a solo low con from a perch, picking an enemy off a friendly's six, or if I have to get in close and work him over for the shot. I'm up there to kill.

[Bronk]

Take your average picker.
12k zooming around in a tiff. You've got your bag full and are now rtb. Dot appears... another speed demon ac. Co alt, co e.
Do you hope
A. it's another picker
or
B. One of the upper echelon furballes out for picker blood. Let's say oooh ...  Drex

Your honesty is appreciated.

[Steve]

I'm going to come in at altitude. Period. When I have control of the situation I don't come in lower than 15k