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Author Topic: Test Questions on visual "Realism"  (Read 1505 times)

Offline Toad

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Test Questions on visual "Realism"
« on: June 20, 2001, 08:00:00 PM »
OK, there's been tons of discussion about visuals and comparisons of 2D 19" monitors and what you can or can't see in Real Life.

So here's two questions to see if you have a good idea about what you CAN see. (Former USAF that have knowledge of the T-38 please wait until we get about 10-20 guesses before you answer.)

The T-38A is not a real big aircraft and is decently comparable in size to some WW2 fiters, so it's a good choice. Plus, there's plenty of good pics around and the correct answers are essentially indisputable. At least to the USAF that handed out these "visual cues" to me a loooong time ago.

Size:
Length 46 feet, 4 1/2 inches (14 meters)  
Height 12 feet, 10 1/2 inches (3.8 meters)  
Wingspan 25 feet, 3 inches (7.6 meters)  


OK, here's some familiarization shots so you know what I'm asking. If you want more data, put "T-38 pictures" in a search engine. Pay particular attention to the tail numbers and the "burner cans" (engine exhaust nozzles) The cans were about 2 -2.5 feet in diameter I think. It's been a while.

EDIT 2: Nexus, good point on the numbers. I should have said it is the numbers we're talking about, not the letters. I sort of remember them briefing that you should see the numbers but not distinguish them. That is, you can't tell an 8 from a 3 or a 0 but u can tell they are numbers.

IIRC (never saw it in print or measured it) those numbers probably are about 10-12" tall.

Maybe one of you that's been to UPT more recently has an input on number size?
[End Edit]

                 

               

                 

                 

         

This last two just to give an idea of size with a man in the picture.                  

               

Question 1: You are flying #2 in "Trail" position (60 degree cone aft) at what distance are the numbers on the vertical stablizer "easily visible but not readable"?
All answer distances are in FEET.

A. 250'
B. 500'
C. 750'
D. 1000'
E. 1250'

Question 2: Still flying as #2 in Trail, at what distance do the "burner cans" (exhaust nozzles) assume a "black figure 8" shape rather than just a black blob or oval? All answer distances are in FEET.

A. 250'
B. 500'
C. 750'
D. 1000'
E. 1250'

Now these are for pilots with 20/20 vision.

The answers soon.           :)

<EDIT> Sorry, some pic links didn't work; found new ones.

[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: Toad ]
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Offline Nifty

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Test Questions on visual "Realism"
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2001, 12:40:00 PM »
1. B
2. C

???  Just guesses based off of not much in general.
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Offline Toad

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Test Questions on visual "Realism"
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2001, 12:51:00 PM »
Nifty, that's the whole idea of this.

I think it wouldn't hurt for folks to take a guess and measure their _perception_ of reality against the _actual_ reality.

This isn't to embarass or anything like that. It's more of a "pause to reflect" on what we REALLY know about how ACM things should look on a PC.

Thanks for being the first to take a shot at it! We get a few more, I'll give out the actual answers. You may be wrong or you may be right.  ;)
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Offline DmdNexus

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Test Questions on visual "Realism"
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2001, 06:09:00 PM »
Interesting question...

I've flown in cessana's before, was always amazed at how much detail could be seen from 2 to 3 thousand feet - like individual people walking, type and make of cars.

Those letters on the stabilizer appear to be 18" tall and the numbers 10".

We have a stop sign at the end of my street and the street is .2 of a mile long. Stop sign letters are 10" high. I have 20/20 vision and can easily read the sign from the other end of the street - that's about 1000ft. (Ok I cheated I measured these numbers.)

Driving home today I discovered that most of the freeway signs could be read from about a 1/4 of a mile away. From 1/2 mile away it's easy to see there are letters on the sign but not necessarily read them. And the letters on the freeway signs seemed to average around 18".

A 60 degree angle probably reduces visibility - but we're talking about distinquishing them as letters and numbers not reading them.

1. 1250'
2. 1250'

Nexus

[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: DmdNexus ]
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Offline Toad

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Test Questions on visual "Realism"
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2001, 09:03:00 PM »
Nexus,

See Edit 2 in the post. IIRC, the numbers are about 10-12".

However, as Nifty, you may be wrong or you may be right.  ;)

[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: Toad ]
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Offline DmdNexus

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Test Questions on visual "Realism"
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2001, 01:01:00 AM »
Ok then if the numbers we are talking about.

1. 750
2. 1250

Nexus

[ 06-22-2001: Message edited by: DmdNexus ]

[ 06-22-2001: Message edited by: DmdNexus ]
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Offline DmdNexus

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Test Questions on visual "Realism"
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2001, 01:03:00 AM »


[ 06-22-2001: Message edited by: DmdNexus ]
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Offline Toad

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Test Questions on visual "Realism"
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2001, 01:19:00 AM »
Step right up! Step right up!

Place yer bet, spin the wheel!

Every spin a winner!

<PUNT>

Man, I'd have thought that in a bunch of guys that seem pretty confident in their ability to judge what's "right" and "wrong" in PC sim visuals we'd have had a lot more answers by now.

Bashful or just don't know?

Go ahead, it's free and the bearded lady won't bite ya!

 ;)
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Offline skernsk

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Test Questions on visual "Realism"
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2001, 10:50:00 AM »
Thanks for the multiple guess :)  I'm not a pilot and have never assumed a 60 degree cone aft of......blah blah blah.

============================

1) A. 1000 Feet

2) B. 500 Feet

============================
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Offline Fatty

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Test Questions on visual "Realism"
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2001, 10:59:00 AM »
I'd have to guess 1000 feet on both.

[ 06-28-2001: Message edited by: Fatty ]
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Offline Hamish

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Test Questions on visual "Realism"
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2001, 12:31:00 PM »
i'll guess C, to both.

"When in Doubt, 'Charlie' out."
--qoute attributed to proctors of many tests.  :D

Hamish!
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Offline Toad

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Test Questions on visual "Realism"
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2001, 05:11:00 PM »
<PUNT>

Come on now. Where are all the "Icons? We don't NEED no stinkin' ICONS!" guys? Surely THOSE guys know how airplanes are supposed to look in the air at fairly close ranges?

TAC? what do you think?

..and the "more realism" guys. Surely THEY know what they are asking for and how it should look?

DeeZ, B52Charlie take a guess?
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Offline Tac

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Test Questions on visual "Realism"
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2001, 06:08:00 PM »
Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

*crowd cheers in idiotic delight*

 ;)


Toad, have you played AH without enemy icons?

I dont give a damn if they dont look "as in real life" ..for feks sake its a computer! Its the ACM thats geting screwed thanks to billboards screaming your location and exact range. H2H enemy iconless, play it for a week, you will see this GAME turn into a SIM.
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Offline Toad

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Test Questions on visual "Realism"
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2001, 06:33:00 PM »
Yes, Tac. I also played WB HA and various no icon scenarios in both games.

To me, what you're saying is you don't care about "real realism" as long as the game fits your personal "perception of realism."

The difference between you and I is that I KNOW what it's supposed to look like.

I HAVE chased other WW2 era aircraft around the sky.

But of course you don't care about realism...unless it's your idea of realism.   :D

Go ahead. Guess. It won't hurt you  ;D
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Offline AKHog

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Test Questions on visual "Realism"
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2001, 06:35:00 PM »
first of all the question seems highly variable due to different eye sight. are you asking the questions as a normal 20/20 or corrected to 20/20 person or are you asking as most U.S. fighter pilots are 20/17 or even 20/15? it makes a big difference. Also lighting, glare and visability make a huge difference. If it were me (20/17 ish) and i was flyin on a perfect day (unlimited vis) and the sun was to my back or somewhere behind me i would guess max distance on both questions.

BTW for those who don't know:

20/20 means you can see a letter at 20 feet that the "average" person can see at 20 feet.

20/40 means you must be at 20 feet to see what the "average" person can see at 40 feet.

20/15 means you can be at 20 feet to see what the "average" person must go to 15 feet to see.

ofcourse there are many other things that effect sight like unlimited variable amounts of color blindness and near/far sighted.

The idea fighter pilot would be a 20/15 but more importantly is not near/far sighted, so he can look at targets, look in cockpit, and look right back outside to targets. this also takes practice in focusing eyes.

Tak if we take away icons how will you know who to shoot? only way to take away icons is to make it a historical plane set, ie no u.s. vs u.s. or ijn vs german.

-AKHog

[ 06-24-2001: Message edited by: AKHog ]
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