Author Topic: Helping to know the planes (Read 560 times)

MANDOBLE · « **on:** June 22, 2001, 03:55:00 AM »

As we all know, AH has a stepped learning curve. Even for veterans, learning a new plane is not an easy task. The next is an idea that, IMO, may help a lot when trying to learn how a plane should be flown, and it should be applicable only for TA and offline modes.

Using a "green" layer in the "video memory report" fashion, show the next real-time info:
Air speed
Acceleration
G load
Climb rate
AoA
Total energy
Energy gain/loose rate
Turn rate
Turn radius
Roll rate
Fuel consumption rate

This layer may be shown or hidden by a key combination like ALT - R.

This feature could be also really cool when examining films.

minus · « **Reply #1 on:** June 22, 2001, 06:40:00 AM »

huh , eurofighter, eurocopter ,comanche , tie fighter , X wing ?
damit plzz no

sory mandoble but this suxx for ww2

juzz · « **Reply #2 on:** June 22, 2001, 08:26:00 AM »

Did you not read? He said that the telemetry should only be available for TA/offline, as a training tool.

(After all, AH is a WW2-based ACM game not a WW2 air combat simulation...)

Nifty · « **Reply #3 on:** June 22, 2001, 09:23:00 AM »

good idea for offline and training arena. Would be a good tool for the trainers in the TA.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #4 on:** June 22, 2001, 09:44:00 AM »

You know what would be better?

"Back in the day" (hmm 7 years ago) in Confirmed Kill, I used a good ol' fashioned stop watch and a little brain power to figure out the turn rate, turn radius, climb rate, and how quickly a plane would accelerate.

As for the energy issue, that's an entirely objective reading. There is no "formula" to figure it out, energy is just airspeed and/or altitude.
-SW

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #5 on:** June 22, 2001, 12:01:00 PM »

Minus, take at least one minute more to read the post, then, if still not clear due my phetid english, I'll post it in spanish and perhaps Babilon translator can do the trick... ...no more comments.

Wulfe, first, energy is measurable, basic physics, but even more important is the energy gain/loose rate, also measurable along the time. Second, dont force a rookie to use his "brain" to calculate turn radius, rate, acceleration, etc. It is plain absurd. And why to use a stop watch when AH can simply show the info IT HAS INTO ITS MEMORY?

For those that CAN'T READ A BIT, this idea is ONLY for TA and offline, perhaps also for H/H if host enable it.

Excuse me if I'm a bit rude, but people that answer without reading overpass my very limited patience by far.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #6 on:** June 22, 2001, 12:12:00 PM »

First of all, I was a newbie when I was "forced" to use my brain.

It's absurd to think that a newbie can't learn this without force feeding him things some of us had to learn through pen and paper. You tend to learn MORE when you actually have to LEARN what you need to do to get an output.

And yes, Energy is not "measurable" even through physics to produce a meaningful readout/output.

You have energy, then you have potential energy.

Energy is speed. Potential energy is altitude you can turn into speed. How do you express this in a form of an output? You can't! I don't know what makes you think this "energy" variable is residing in memory, because it isn't. Energy is a combination of altitude and speed. If you are going 300MPH and are at 0alt, you have 300MPH worth of energy. When you go vertical you have gravity+weight of plane pulling you down, drag pushing you slower and the plane's engine/speed working against the previous two factors to keep the plane going up.

THere is no absolute formula to factor energy, it's an ever changing variable that does not contain an absolute answer.
-SW

[ 06-22-2001: Message edited by: SWulfe ]

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #7 on:** June 22, 2001, 12:14:00 PM »

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[ 06-22-2001: Message edited by: SWulfe ]

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #8 on:** June 22, 2001, 12:21:00 PM »

Nevermind then

[ 06-22-2001: Message edited by: SWulfe ]

hitech · « **Reply #9 on:** June 22, 2001, 12:22:00 PM »

SW there is.

Energy = (V*V + Alt) * Mass

HiTech

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #10 on:** June 22, 2001, 12:23:00 PM »

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[ 06-22-2001: Message edited by: SWulfe ]

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #11 on:** June 22, 2001, 01:31:00 PM »

ups, a so "crude" formula post was a 88mm direct hit into Wulfe cockpit

Wulfe I can agree with you about your "old fashion" point that "hard-learned" things are "well-learned" things. But remember one KEY point here, this is an "entertaiment tool", not a LIFE. Most players have limited time, so, shorting the learning time will let them closer and closer to the real enjoyment.

Most of the rookies do not have the "mystic power" to "feel" the plane envelope. Juzz used an extremely precisse term: "telemetry", telemetered data with calculated signals, in fact. And this data will "draw" the envelope for the rookies in a clear numerical way. If this data can be persistant (saved with the films), it could be a really powerful tool for training.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #12 on:** June 22, 2001, 01:42:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE:
Most players have limited time, so, shorting the learning time will let them closer and closer to the real enjoyment.

I know. I was there at one time. It took me 7 years to get to where I am today. In those 7 years of learning things the hard way, can't say I didn't have a helluva fun time throughout the whole ordeal.

It's entertainment, granted, but learning how to do things is the biggest accomplishment in this. It's a hobby, something that requires a certain skill to do (like building plastic plane models with perfection), and I think that in order to achieve a respectable level of accomplishment and satisfaction you have to learn things your own way.

If you guys want that output, fine by me... Prolly just make people easier to kill for me! <G> "My plane has more energy at 300MPH and 10K than your plane does!"

Me: "Your fancy readings didn't tell you that I was going to be doing 340MPH at 15K, now did it?"

-SW

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #13 on:** June 22, 2001, 01:56:00 PM »

SWulfe, it seems you dont understand the finality of a system like that. This is mainly intended to "learn" the plane you fly, not as a tool to kill the other guy trying to figure out the "telemetered" data in the enemy FE. Obviously you cant reach the other guy screen to "spy" his energy state or his energy rate of change.

Nifty · « **Reply #14 on:** June 22, 2001, 02:59:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE:
SWulfe, it seems you dont understand the finality of a system like that. This is mainly intended to "learn" the plane you fly, not as a tool to kill the other guy trying to figure out the "telemetered" data in the enemy FE. Obviously you cant reach the other guy screen to "spy" his energy state or his energy rate of change.

Plus considering you said to only have the telemetry work in the Training Arena and offline, it'd be kinda hard to use in combat!

other than that free for all that goes on in the TA.