Author Topic: In Flight Collisions (Read 1539 times)

lemur · « **Reply #60 on:** December 06, 2001, 03:52:00 PM »

Ahem.

Back to the topic at hand.

There are 4 possible ways of handling this:

1) 'Collider' takes damage, 'Target' doesn't. This is the way it's handled now. Downside: It's exploitable (barely), it's unrealistic. Upside: You know you've been killed right away (No delay from your FE telling you you're dead)
2) 'Collider' takes damage, 'Target takes damage': Downside, the 'target', which didn't see a collision on his FE, takes damage. He may have manovered to avoid the collision, but he gets screwed instead. Also, the damage to the target shows up a second AFTER the collision
3) Target takes damage, collider doesn't. This is a stupid idea (I'm just throwing it in here for completeness sake)
4) Neither takes damage unless both sides see the collision on their FE:
Downside: Long delay before damage takes effect (since both sides have to tell the server about the damage, then the server has to come back with a 'Yup, the target agrees that was a collision'), occationally you'll fly right through a guy.
Upside: Not gameable, realistic (up to a point), completely fair.

I'd say options 1 & 4 are the only 'workable' and fair solutions.

In the case of 4 we'd all have to live with collisions that took effect a certain time after the fact ('Collider' + 'target' ping time later) Still, this time shouldn't be more than 1 second later, on average.

So it boils down to this: Either one guy might get screwed in a collision, or nobody gets screwed but we have to live with 'late' damage from collisions.

hitech · « **Reply #61 on:** December 06, 2001, 04:06:00 PM »

Lemar, only thing I disagree with your analiss is #4,on anything but a head on collision both FEs will never both see a collision.

HiTech

lemur · « **Reply #62 on:** December 06, 2001, 04:33:00 PM »

Hey HT,

Is it really true that both FE's rarely see the same collision?

I'm curious to know how much in dissagrement two FEs in a dogfight are.

An alternative would then be to set up detection of 'Near misses'

One FE would have to see the collision, and the other would at least have to see a 'near miss' to have the collision happen.

Karnak · « **Reply #63 on:** December 06, 2001, 05:32:00 PM »

lemur,

A good way to test this is to fly in formation with another guy and tell eachother the distances you see between you.

Keep in mind that the faster the two aircraft are moving the greater the discrepancy. The faster the two aircraft are moving in releation to eachother the greater the discrepancy.

It boils down to this:
Two aircraft flying next to eachother at 150mph are not going to see staggering diffferences.

Two aircraft flying next to eachother at 400mph will see significantly larger differences.

Two aircraft merging across eachother's noses witha closing speed of 800mph will see very large differences.

I this player's (me) experience differences of D200 and D300 are about standard. When you consider that a fighter's wingspan is D10 to D17 in width you can see that collisions on both FEs are rare.

AKWarp · « **Reply #64 on:** December 06, 2001, 08:28:00 PM »

I'm all for both aircraft dying in a collision.

It's not fair that someone out of ammo can ram you? No worse than a HO or getting vulched when you are trying to land and can't maneuver or shoot back....and those poor, defenseless goons...

Besides, with the way things are going these days..the added threat of getting rammed might instill a nice difference in the game.
As it is, it's pretty much a furball arena. The Mindanaou map lasts for weeks on end and all others usually reset within the day.

Great for the furball lovers I guess...sux for those that like to utilize the other vehicles in the game....

One other question that might be of interest...when you blast, say a buff to pieces, do the wreckage pieces ever "perceive" a collision and expode further? I ask because I have, on quite a few occassions, blasted buffs and turned away, yet my FE perceives a collision with the pieces and I die...yet on my screen, it was not even close.

Smut · « **Reply #65 on:** December 07, 2001, 05:42:00 AM »

No thank you. We aready have enough "grief players" in the MA...why give them something else to use?

For those unfamilar with the term "grief player" (a.k.a. "griefer"), it refers to someone that is intent on exploiting loopholes in the game mechanics to ruin the gaming experience of other players. It is a widespread problem in the MMORPG world.

-Smut

Quote

Originally posted by AKWarp:
I'm all for both aircraft dying in a collision.

It's not fair that someone out of ammo can ram you? No worse than a HO or getting vulched when you are trying to land and can't maneuver or shoot back....and those poor, defenseless goons...

Besides, with the way things are going these days..the added threat of getting rammed might instill a nice difference in the game.

Karnak · « **Reply #66 on:** December 07, 2001, 06:04:00 AM »

AKWarp,

You have it exactly backwards.

Right now they can't ram you, but your suggested "fix" would make ramming commonplace.

AKWarp · « **Reply #67 on:** December 12, 2001, 12:04:00 AM »

Karnak,

I don't have it backwards...I KNOW I can't ram anyone intentionally and kill THEM. Go back and read what I said. I want BOTH planes to be damaged or die in a collision, no matter who hit who first. If that means anyone can go around ramming others, then so be it...it would be, afterall, a 2-way street.

As for griefers, this would not be an exploit, it would just be part of the game. Ramming common place? Heh, we would most likely see a lot of people trying it a lot at first, but once you realize just how hard it is to actually run into another plane on purpose, I don't think we'd see it so commonplace after a short while.

As for the wreckage....what's the story? Who's FE sees a hit on a piece of it? Mine? the AI's? The con's? Why is it I can blast a buff to pieces and turn away well in advance, yet still die beause I supposedly hit a piece of wreckage that was 100 yards away? I thought this collision/bullet hit thing was supposed to be what my FE sees? Or is that only for select things? And if it is, then there is NO reason not to allow dual damage/death in aircraft collisions.

Smut · « **Reply #68 on:** December 12, 2001, 11:05:00 AM »

You are forgeting the Buff drivers, I think.

-Smut

Quote

Originally posted by AKWarp:
As for griefers, this would not be an exploit, it would just be part of the game. Ramming common place? Heh, we would most likely see a lot of people trying it a lot at first, but once you realize just how hard it is to actually run into another plane on purpose, I don't think we'd see it so commonplace after a short while.

AKWarp · « **Reply #69 on:** December 17, 2001, 12:22:00 AM »

No, haven't forgotten them. Buffs are pretty hard to take down as it is (unless oyu have 2-3 fighters working it). Would still be hard to ram one.

AKIron · « **Reply #70 on:** December 18, 2001, 05:58:00 PM »

Warp, the way I understand it, if your FE doesn't "see" a collision with even a piece of the buff then there shouldn't be a collision for you.

Perhaps you're actually being damaged by bullets fired from the buff before it was destroyed and the hits on you are delayed due to net lag. Just a theory.