Skuzzy, Is a supercharged NIC worth it?

[Lusche]

If you have a better network connection than your opponent, you can see what he does before he sees what you do. 

How so?

In my understanding, travel time of signals between our computers add up. I'm sending my data to the server (my latency) which then relays to your computer (your latency). The same goes other way round: Your signals go to the server first (your latency) which relays them to my computer (my latency)

So let's say you have a ping of 30 and I'm having one of 150.

Me->Server 150ms
Server->You 30ms
Total travel time: 180ms

You->Server 30ms
Server->Me 150ms
Total travel time 180ms

Total travel time should be the same both ways, so no one has an advantage over the other. I don't see how you could "see my moves earlier", which would mean that somehow my signals would have to travel much faster from me to you than yours would travel to mine.

[Skuzzy]

Eagl, the question is, is this card worth it?  At 4 times the price of a good network card,..there is no way it is worth it.  I call it a scam due to the various claims the manufacturer have made, that are just lies.  I was not quoting any fanbois of sites.  The claim it will change routes for you came from the manufacturer.  Yes, it is a big deal to me, as it goes to the credibility of the product and those who designed it.  You can call it what it you like.  I call it scamming.

In real world use, there are just as many Internet gurus who have said it will not do a thing for your gaming connection, which actually makes sense.  There is nothing this card can buy you, in real world use, as the Internet is the gating factor in the performance of online game play.  Overall latencies and fluctuations in latencies are all impacted by the various routers on the Internet.

Today, most, if not all, network based games use timers to send thier packets, instead of simply blasting them out over the network every frame loop.  These games will not be impacted by this card at all, as compared to a $30 network card.

Not sure why you are getting all wound up about this.  Would a white paper on this topic help?  I am a EE with over 25 years of networking experience.  I think I am more than qualified to cover this topic.

By the way, I have not said it as I really did not think it needed to be said.  If anyone wants to prove something, the easiest way to go about it is to create a test situation where the point will be proven.  It does not mean the point proven is valid.  It simply means there is a situation where it can be proven.  Is the situation valid and applicable to the real world?  I happen to know the answer to that question as I also happen to have a bit of coding experience in this particular area (both with HTC and outside of HTC).

[doc1kelley]

Eagl, the question is, is this card worth it?  At 4 times the price of a good network card,..there is no way it is worth it.  I call it a scam due to the various claims the manufacturer have made, that are just lies.  I was not quoting any fanbois of sites.  The claim it will change routes for you came from the manufacturer.  Yes, it is a big deal to me, as it goes to the credibility of the product and those who designed it.  You can call it what it you like.  I call it scamming.

In real world use, there are just as many Internet gurus who have said it will not do a thing for your gaming connection, which actually makes sense.  There is nothing this card can buy you, in real world use, as the Internet is the gating factor in the performance of online game play.  Overall latencies and fluctuations in latencies are all impacted by the various routers on the Internet.

Today, most, if not all, network based games use timers to send thier packets, instead of simply blasting them out over the network every frame loop.  These games will not be impacted by this card at all, as compared to a $30 network card.

Not sure why you are getting all wound up about this.  Would a white paper on this topic help?  I am a EE with over 25 years of networking experience.  I think I am more than qualified to cover this topic.

By the way, I have not said it as I really did not think it needed to be said.  If anyone wants to prove something, the easiest way to go about it is to create a test situation where the point will be proven.  It does not mean the point proven is valid.  It simply means there is a situation where it can be proven.  Is the situation valid and applicable to the real world?  I happen to know the answer to that question as I also happen to have a bit of coding experience in this particular area (both with HTC and outside of HTC).

Skuzzy,

I had followed the development of the Killer NIC and had never seen any statement indicating that it would change routes over the internet.  I'm not saying that it hasn't been stated somewhere but that I had not seen it.  I have been using the Killer NIC K1 card (does NOT have the dial to increase or decrease ping time) and I've been mostly satisfied in it's performance.  What I have experienced is smoother connections, less boots, and in AH, the main thing that I notice is that I don't see the warpy buffs.  I'm not saying that I haven't seen warps by planes but I used to see buffs warp all the time when I was in a GV but It is very rare to see it now.  Truthfully in the bang for the buck department I have to agree with Skuzzy here.  What I'm speculating is that the Killer has some type of "smoothing code" to lessen some of the problems inherent in the Internet.  I know that there is no "Cure-all" for the woes of the internet, but this card does seem to decrease some of the impact.  Would I recommend it to somebody who was scraping the fund department to have a machine capable of running AHII at a satisfactory performance level?  NO!  Would I recommend it for somebody that likes the latest toys and has the funds to maintain a system at the optimal level?  Yes, I would.  All in all, your mileage may vary.

All the Best...

   Jay
 awDoc1

[Vulcan]

What I'm speculating is that the Killer has some type of "smoothing code" to lessen some of the problems inherent in the Internet.

Pure fantasy sorry. What you're saying is the equivalent to saying to a car mechanic "hey I put a new gearstick knob on my car and it goes much better now".

The Killernic is simply a nic with it's own processor, similar nic's are available and far cheaper (ie go buy a decent intel server nic). The benefits of such a nic is that it performs well under load. However a typical AH connection uses well less than 64kbps in each direction.

You really need to know the OSI layer, how each part functions with your data, how your data is transformed, handled, dropped or forwarded at each routing hop, and each switching hop, and understanding what devices could be between you and HTC and how they can affect your data in all sorts of ways. This is what skuzzy does for a job, me too.

killernic = snake oil.

[MOSQ]

The latest version of the KillerNic does have a builtin firewall that runs on the mini Linux processor. So you can port forward or DMZ your gaming computer through your router, or bypass a router completely. I know cheap routers cause some of the issues we have in AH.

I purchased one a couple of weeks ago when newegg had them on sale. I'm having trouble getting my router to cooperate with the KillerNic. I've tried port forwarding all the AH ports, and I've also tried to DMZ it, but it's just not working. The router keeps dropping it, even though I assigned a static IP address to the KillerNic MAC. The DMZ function on my router simply doesn't want to configure at all, it's a router problem, not the nic.

So using the firewall ability is still theoretical for me. I could plug my gaming rig directly into my cable modem, but then my wifey wouldn't be too happy at the other end of the wireless router.

[Vulcan]

You shouldn't need to port forward anything unless it's a *really* crappy router.

What use is a firewall on the card in a LAN environment anyway? You'd end up having to open everything up.

[Reschke]

Sure there are cheap NIC's out there, but no one has to spend over $30 to get a really good network card that will offload the CPU of the entire network stack, handle all data transfers, and include jumbo frame buffer support.

Roger that I lost both onboard NIC slots in my motherboard and then had to go buy a separate card. The connection improved a little bit over what the original was from the onboard NIC connections but not a ton.

[MOSQ]

You shouldn't need to port forward anything unless it's a *really* crappy router.

What use is a firewall on the card in a LAN environment anyway? You'd end up having to open everything up.

I did a firmware update to my router, now the DMZ works. I've set my gaming rig to run in the DMZ while the rest of the LAN is protected behind the router.

The KillerNic built-in firewall is doing fine. It has two modes, Applications, and Gaming. They are switchable from the tray icon. Having the KillerNic firewall allows me to disable Windows Firewall. The firewall is configured to block all incoming ports with the exception of AH's ports, and that traffic must also be coming from HTC's dedicated IP addresses. When in Applications mode it also asks to allow outgoing connections from my other applications. In Gaming mode it doesn't interrupt with those requests.

So far my connection to HTC servers is working fine. No UDP drops switching to TCP yet.

I like the idea of it having it's own Power PC processor. Bigfoot networks is writing apps that can run on the nic in the background while my CPU is doing other things. So far they have the firewall and BitTorrent, there will be more.

Is it worth it? Well, I got the cheaper of the two KillerNics (K1) on Christmas sale at Newegg for $100. For 99% of folks it's not worth the extra $50 over an Intel Pro 100 NIC. For me, I like messing with new technologies that are at least 3/4 baked, it's fun. So it's worth it for me. 

For folks without a LAN who want to connect their PC direct to a cable modem, the economics make more sense. You can safely connect direct to the cable modem using your Killernic firewall to protect your PC. That way avoiding buying a router for only the NAT firewall protection it provides.