Author Topic: Shore Batteries Vs CV Guns (Read 283 times)

DmdNexus · « **on:** June 28, 2001, 01:26:00 PM »

CVs have an advantage over Shore batters in that in Land mode they automatically turn and adjust elevation to hit the area selected.

The reason why the CV gunnery is so much powerful in this respect is because all one has to do as a CV gunner is to .wingman a buddy who flys over the target and says "mark" - at that time the gunner clicks on the wingmans dot, Land mode keeps the turrets always aimed at that spot, pull the trigger and shells fall right on target - works very well against CVs and Land targets. All the gunner has to do is pull the trigger repeatedly.

Shore batters, however, have no such ability and they are at disadvantage in this respect.

If a historical reason is needed, fire control would have had several spotters along the shore line which would observe the angle to the target, using the technique called "triangulation", the range could easily be calculated.

In Normandy, the German shore defenses had their guns ranged to specific crossfire kill zones. When the enemy entered these established zones, the gun fire was right on and deadly (in this case, I'm speaking about the zones on the beaches). Something that would be useful against LVTs.

Could some kind of ranging device be added for shore batteries to back the batteries more effective at hitting targets?

Nexus

Greg 'wmutt' Cook · « **Reply #1 on:** June 28, 2001, 02:15:00 PM »

So far as I can see, there is no marking on the map to show where the very small target of the shore batterey is. so it is useful to find the ground, but that is all, also, it is pretty tought shooting from the moving target.

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sling322 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 28, 2001, 02:55:00 PM »

Personally I find the shore guns to be a mess of fun. Once I get the CV dialed in, its all but a foregone conclusion that it is gonna be sinking shortly. The zoom limitation on it kinda sucks but you can work around that if you use your imagination.

Pepe · « **Reply #3 on:** June 29, 2001, 03:10:00 AM »

Now I do find TG Guns useful. I'm being quite successful at softening Airbases from between 33 and 25k. Usually not fatal damage, but I can tear light structures like ammo dumps, fuel depots, and Ack-Ack pretty good from that very long distances.

OTOH, shore batteries are VERY VERY dangerous to TG's. As sling says, once TG is in range, it's pretty much dead.

Cheers,

Pepe

Nifty · « **Reply #4 on:** June 29, 2001, 09:42:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by sling322:
Personally I find the shore guns to be a mess of fun. Once I get the CV dialed in, its all but a foregone conclusion that it is gonna be sinking shortly. The zoom limitation on it kinda sucks but you can work around that if you use your imagination.

Yup!!! finally got the CV dialed after about 10-15 shots (got range, then figured out lead, then figured out his heading). First hit sprite I got on him, I went nuts on the squad channel! Went crazy on the country channel a couple of hits later as the CV went BOOOOOM!

Gypsy Baron · « **Reply #5 on:** June 29, 2001, 11:51:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pepe:
Now I do find TG Guns useful. I'm being quite successful at softening Airbases from between 33 and 25k. Usually not fatal damage, but I can tear light structures like ammo dumps, fuel depots, and Ack-Ack pretty good from that very long distances.

OTOH, shore batteries are VERY VERY dangerous to TG's. As sling says, once TG is in range, it's pretty much dead.

Cheers,
Pepe

That's why now, instead of targeting the base radar from the CA's guns, I first take out
the shore batteries, if they are present.

Then I go after the radar, followed by a general walking fire barrage to hammer as many
gun positions, fuel and ammo bunkers as possible. Only then do
I start laying down fire on the hangars.

My greatest "joy", however, is when an enemy fleet comes within range of my CA's turret...
I love those running 8" gun battles

DmdNexus · « **Reply #6 on:** June 29, 2001, 11:59:00 AM »

Err guys this post wasn't in regards to the "destructive" power of the Shore batteries being weak and needing more "punch".

Sorry, my mistake for using the word "power".

It's that it takes 10 to 15 shots to find the range, CV's can find the range with in a few shots with a spotter.

It's no big deal... just pointing out the differneces and suggesting that shore batteries should, IMHO, have a ranging device other than trial and error.

Nexus

[ 06-29-2001: Message edited by: DmdNexus ]

Nifty · « **Reply #7 on:** June 29, 2001, 03:31:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DmdNexus:
Err guys this post wasn't in regards to the "destructive" power of the Shore batteries being weak and needing more "punch".

Sorry, my mistake for using the word "power".

It's that it takes 10 to 15 shots to find the range, CV's can find the range with in a few shots with a spotter.

It's no big deal... just pointing out the differneces and suggesting that shore batteries should, IMHO, have a ranging device other than trial and error.

Nexus

[ 06-29-2001: Message edited by: DmdNexus ]

sorry for not replying to your actual question.

You're right, shore batteries had spotters. In fact, at Ft. Pickens here in P'Cola, they had a couple of towers that the spotters would climb up in to get ranges. They'd feed those down to the 14" guns for range/bearing. Don't think anything ever was spotted down here though, but I'm sure they practiced on something. Woulda been fun to see that practice firing!

gwjr · « **Reply #8 on:** July 04, 2001, 11:49:00 PM »

1 other quick note I find that the coverage of SBs not very good I think the entire landing beaches would have been covered...also a few approaches to base are not able to be fired on thus wide open CV with no threat of fire......
GW

Don · « **Reply #9 on:** July 11, 2001, 12:18:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DmdNexus:
CVs have an advantage over Shore batters in that in Land mode they automatically turn and adjust elevation to hit the area selected.

The reason why the CV gunnery is so much powerful in this respect is because all one has to do as a CV gunner is to .wingman a buddy who flys over the target and says "mark" - at that time the gunner clicks on the wingmans dot, Land mode keeps the turrets always aimed at that spot, pull the trigger and shells fall right on target
Nexus

Nexus:
What you describe seems to be a problem with the way the game has modelled gunnery from ship to shore or shore to ship; not very sporting is it?
I shoot from CVs a lot and find it difficult to range in and then destroy a target. If countrymen were more cooperative, it would be a lot easier than it is. Using a flight (dot) command is, IMO, a misuse of an aspect of the game and should be fixed. I also find it tough to hit a shore battery from a Cruiser; I have tried it several times over the past 3 days and 2 out of 3 times had a ship shot out from under me by a shore battery; I did not use the .dot command.
All things considered, fighting fairly yields fair fighting conditions.
Your request should then apply to ship to shore batteries as well. Navy ships have spotters and range finders as s.o.p and are/were a lot more sophisticated than what is available in AH.

[ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: Don ]

MiG Eater · « **Reply #10 on:** July 11, 2001, 01:32:00 PM »

The question that needs to be asked:

Did shore batteries have the complex fire directing systems and radar ranging available to the large ships from the WW2 era and as modeled in AH?

Respecfully, giving SB's such an ability would be purely a gameplay concession. The zoom feature available allows an SB gunner to act as their own spotter. Most shore battery gunners are amazingly accurate with their fire once they've determined range with a few spotting shots. And the SB's have numerous and much larger targets. They don't have to be as accurate or need to worry as much about dispersion as a gunner aboard a ship.

MiG

brady · « **Reply #11 on:** July 13, 2001, 04:30:00 PM »

Awile back i picked this book by a Frenchmen and the name excapes me but it was full of photos he too of the shore battries along the French coast,included in thease photos were numiours shots of their attending observation towere. these toweres as the book recounted were used for range findind of the guns. Ya see the guns in most cases did not nescesserly see the ships theam selves onlt the spoting tower did. I am of course refering to the large calliber coastal battiers, not the AT bunkers of MG nests.

MrRiplEy · « **Reply #12 on:** July 13, 2001, 04:39:00 PM »

Observation towers and firecontrol are the essential core of coastal artillery.

The fire leader calls out and observes the hits with his spotting binoculars and ranger with stereo binoculars, makes adjustments, sends it to the math room where cannons get calculated individual angles for the target, and then fires again. (in ww2 time angles were manually calculated.)

Direct fire from the cannons is not used except in direct-aim shooting or if the artillery commander gets killed - basically only in an emergency.