Getting shout down. Is it my fault ?

[awrabbit]

Yes it is !

It is due to choices that I make or, do not make. it is that simple.

I have been reading a lot of the messages on the boards. and observing a lot of the tactics that some of us use.

The reasons I get shot down the most are :

1, I am a Dweeb !
2, I forget about S.A.
3, I do not know how to fly my aircraft of choice.
4, I do not care as long as I am having a good time.
5, I merged with a much better virtual pilot.
6, My gunnery is awful.

If you get shout down and none of the above pertains to you. I would have to say that it you are Dweeb Denial. perhaps you should play a game that is more predictable like tic tac toe ?

If you feel the need to whine about being killed in any way. perhaps you should just take a look at what you are doing to get shot down and improve your skills as well as make better decisions. 
 Just salute the pilot that shot you down and move on to the next sortie. try to make the next sortie more productive.

If you like to fur ball or, up from a capped base.  guess what? chances are that you will be shot down.

 If people want the points/base bad enough give it to them.   up from the next base over and come to the fight with some E and some options.  There is plenty of people on your side that will be porking a enemy base someplace.

If a pair of 51's drop on you and kill you from 20k while you are cruising in your plane of choice at 10k simple.... come up with a wingman and  co alt or more . 

If you do not like people that fly huge buff missions and point mongers avoid them. or, hunt them for fun.  but, do not taunt them let your skills speak for themselves. 

If someone merges with you head on and shoots you in the face  ( this sucks ! )....  learn for avoid the  head on passes. 

There is a lot of people that like to play this game their way so let them do their thing.
Just remember to do your thing as well.
the worst that could happen is we will have a reset and the point people will have their points.

I for one do not even care about points that is not what this game is about for me.  I like to have a good K/D ratio and get back to base every time. (I have neither one of these but, one can hope ) And most important it is about hanging with some online friends and having some fun any way I choose to do so !

I guess what I am saying is do what you enjoy within the game  there is plenty of room for everyone to do anything they wish.

Do not let what someone else is doing or not doning get into your head and ruin your experiance in AH.

If you are having trouble with a aspect of your flying/buffing/tanking..... get in touch with a trainer or work it out on your own. Keep in mind that 10,000 deaths will teach you some things too.  I for one plan to take my beatings  and learn from each one.  I film and review each sortie then make notes of what I did right and what I did wrong. (so far I have not been doing too much right ! )
Always ask questions Vet or Noob. there is always room to improve or see something from a different angle.

Back in the old days I used to call AH Tank Warrior or, Buff  Wars.  but, after a long break and a lot of thought before I came back to AH I realized the above.

Heck it works for me and is just my .02 from my observations since I have been back.

Cheers

Rabbit

[CAP1]

i used top get shot down a lot, from poor sa in furballs. i still do. but now, it's generally because i'm flying a big airplane with a pair of allisons, in amongst those little wiggly things.

 i've also realized it's just a game, and as long as i pay my 15/month dues, i get unlimited planes included. can't beat that deal. i die, i kill, i die more...........it's all fun.

<<S>

[zuii]

Any time (happens way to much for my taste) i get shot down, be it a gang situation or a ho, whatever, Its always my fault and mine alone. If i put myself in a situation where i get shot down, its only my fault. The one thing that really seems to rattle my cage are the few warps one might run into.
not sure why. Id rather get hoed than fight a warpiy enemy craft.  (go figure?)


zuii

[CAP1]

Any time (happens way to much for my taste) i get shot down, be it a gang situation or a ho, whatever, Its always my fault and mine alone. If i put myself in a situation where i get shot down, its only my fault. The one thing that really seems to rattle my cage are the few warps one might run into.
not sure why. Id rather get hoed than fight a warpiy enemy craft.  (go figure?)


zuii

i'd rather fight the warpy dude. at least he's easier to hit, and actually trying to fight back. 

[WMLute]

The only time I ever have to Shout someone down is when Wrag is talking on squad vox and I am trying to get a word in edgewise.  But that ain't my fault, it's Wrags.

[Void56]

 

[lagger86]

   If someone shoots me down it's their fault...If I hit a tree it's the trees fault for being in the way. If I hit the ground it's usually because gravity forced me to, so I blame physics. Clearly if none of these things happen then I would survive a lot more. Sometimes I run out of gas and ditch....which is obviously caused by a faulty fuel gauge in my hellcat, but if somebody put a hole in my fuel tank, then it's their fault.

   honestly though, I rarely complain about all these things because if I actually payed attention I could avoid them. I usually do have quite a bit of fun....and I blame myself and the people I fly with for that.

[Murdr]

Try this one..."If you're not dying, you're not fighting."  I don't care how good someone is, or how perfect their decisions, there is an element of risk after leaving the tower. 

Or this... "The best laid battle plan does not survive first contact with the enemy."  AH is not like a chess match where all the pieces and future possibilities are there for you to contemplate.  Instead in AH "pieces" may be added anywhere on the board at any time without notice.

For instance, a cherry pick does not automatically equate a breakdown in SA.  One can be tracking and addressing both the initial engagement and the picking threat, but that does not mean they have an option to address both threats successfully 100% of the time.  Likewise, you can be aware the local tide of battle is about to change against you, and want to retreat, but that does not mean the opportunity to do so successfully will be there.

In a one on one.  If one player holds the energy, and either maneuverability or speed cards, it's their fault if they get shot down.  The player on the disadvantaged end, may or may not have been able to do anything differently to change the outcome.  Them second guessing prior to visual contact starts to become pointless.  One can seconds guess themselves all the way back to the hanger with plane choice and loadout, but any plane choice could be construed as the "wrong" one, given the right random encounter.

The dynamic nature of the MA specifically allows the possibility of making a series of decisions, each individually correct for the situation at hand, and end up in a situation with no options.  Odds are if you got shot down, you did make a mistake somewhere, but it is not an absolute assumption.  The problem with making it an absolute assumption is that if the tactics and maneuver decisions were sound, the only thing left to improve on is risk mitigation.  And frankly players unwilling to take any risks are not fun to play with.

Also, I reserve the right to shine a light on any poor behavior I see, and to enjoy the game by occasionally taunting players into making mistakes.  This is a social game.  A player may feel their subscription includes the right to behave detrimental to others gameplay enjoyment, but other players have the right to call them on the behaviour. 

I read well intended advise here, with good individual tips.  But I disagree with the absolute nature of the premise.

[Ghosth]

Funny, Murdr, Wabbit your both right in many respects. Your just seeing it from different sides.
And saying the same thing in different ways.


A: Everyone flys, everyone dies, yes even the lord and Master of all, Hitech.
So if you just died, accept that you made a mistake someplace. May not have seemed like one at the time, but if it lead you back to the tower, yes it was a mistake.

B It was YOUR mistake, so why yell at HIM about it?
Don't yell at the guy who shot you down, he didn't screw up, you did.
So send him a <S>, or NOT, your choice, grab a new plane, and try again.

C Planes are free, so skip the anxt, forget the drama,  grab a new one and try again.
Thankfully Hitech has mercy on us poor fools. Cause if he ever decided to charge us by the plane we'd all be broke.
And he'd be sitting on some beach someplace laughing.

Everyone plays the game, but we each have our own reasons for how we play the way we play.
That is not to say this is right, and that is wrong.
Whats cherry picking viewed from one side, is smart flying viewed from the other.
What looks like Hordeing from one side is wingman and teamwork tactics from the other.

There is no "right" way to play the game, we each decide what is right for us.

Over time the choices we make, and the friends we choose have an effect on our online reputation.

As a result, some people are highly respected, some are not.

But no one ever got respect by verbally abusing the person who just shot him down on 200 or on private.
Doesn't work that way.

[Murdr]

Funny, Murdr, Wabbit your both right in many respects. Your just seeing it from different sides.
And saying the same thing in different ways.

It would seem not.

So if you just died, accept that you made a mistake someplace. May not have seemed like one at the time, but if it lead you back to the tower, yes it was a mistake.

That was where I disagreed.  If a 747 flies 37k over my house right now, and an engine comes loose and falls on top of my head.  By that logic, (pick one) it was my fault for being at home/sitting in this chair, typing.  I could choose to be elsewhere and still run the risk of something "screwy" and unforseen happening.  AH is not a rigidly structured sport or board game where all factors are equal and all eventualities are known.  There is a fog of war, all factors are not know, any number of eventualities no matter how unlikely, can and will happen. 

A perfect set of actions and decisions will not guarantee that you won't eventually get shot down.  I don't know how I can put it any more plainly than that.

There is no "right" way to play the game, we each decide what is right for us.

There are "wrong" ways to play the game.  I simply need to raise the word "griefer" to prove the point.  There is a threshold where "its my 15 bucks and I'll play how I want" crosses over into infringing on the ability of enjoying the service they are also paying for.  To ignore that reality is to say the most ignorant and lame gameplay is effectively the "right" way to play because everyone else should just keep quiet.  I vehemently disagree with this.  Community ettiquette is a large factor in the quality of overall gameplay of AH.  If everyone is quiet as a mouse, then there is no such thing a ettiquette.  We have split arenas and arena caps because only so many people can be cramed together into an arena before it is no longer a community, but a slum (HTC's word) becasue everyone can do as they please and hide in a crowd of anonymity.

There are many styles of gameplay that are equally valid, but that is not to say that any one of those styles taken to the extreme is not detremental to AH.  We have country balancer, because of the attitude that "its my 15" and I'll play the way I want for the chess piece I want, and be more than happy to fly on a side that outnumbers both other countries combined.  That was a case of "team play" taken to the extreme, starting with multiple multi-wing squads having an event night, and it turning into almost a daily event.  It was very detremental to the gameplay of others.  There are issues large and small where it may be appropriate to "call out" about.  The problem lies in the disgression of the individuals to run their mouth when it is neither appropriate, or important enough to address.

I see the attitude that saying anything negative about anything or anyone is always a "whine" both in game and on the boards.  That is intellectually dishonest.  The "it's my 15 bucks" argument works both ways.  If you can "play" the way you want, I can express my opinion about your gameplay the way I want.

Of course nobody outright advocated for the points I just disagreed with, but such is the nature of making an absolute line of reasoning.  If you don't conceed for exceptions that exist, implications are included whether intended or not.

[WMLute]

Excellent post Murdr.
 

[Dawger]

It would seem not.

That was where I disagreed.  If a 747 flies 37k over my house right now, and an engine comes loose and falls on top of my head.  By that logic, (pick one) it was my fault for being at home/sitting in this chair, typing.  I could choose to be elsewhere and still run the risk of something "screwy" and unforseen happening.  AH is not a rigidly structured sport or board game where all factors are equal and all eventualities are known.  There is a fog of war, all factors are not know, any number of eventualities no matter how unlikely, can and will happen. 

A perfect set of actions and decisions will not guarantee that you won't eventually get shot down.  I don't know how I can put it any more plainly than that.

There are "wrong" ways to play the game.  I simply need to raise the word "griefer" to prove the point.  There is a threshold where "its my 15 bucks and I'll play how I want" crosses over into infringing on the ability of enjoying the service they are also paying for.  To ignore that reality is to say the most ignorant and lame gameplay is effectively the "right" way to play because everyone else should just keep quiet.  I vehemently disagree with this.  Community ettiquette is a large factor in the quality of overall gameplay of AH.  If everyone is quiet as a mouse, then there is no such thing a ettiquette.  We have split arenas and arena caps because only so many people can be cramed together into an arena before it is no longer a community, but a slum (HTC's word) becasue everyone can do as they please and hide in a crowd of anonymity.

There are many styles of gameplay that are equally valid, but that is not to say that any one of those styles taken to the extreme is not detremental to AH.  We have country balancer, because of the attitude that "its my 15" and I'll play the way I want for the chess piece I want, and be more than happy to fly on a side that outnumbers both other countries combined.  That was a case of "team play" taken to the extreme, starting with multiple multi-wing squads having an event night, and it turning into almost a daily event.  It was very detremental to the gameplay of others.  There are issues large and small where it may be appropriate to "call out" about.  The problem lies in the disgression of the individuals to run their mouth when it is neither appropriate, or important enough to address.

I see the attitude that saying anything negative about anything or anyone is always a "whine" both in game and on the boards.  That is intellectually dishonest.  The "it's my 15 bucks" argument works both ways.  If you can "play" the way you want, I can express my opinion about your gameplay the way I want.

Of course nobody outright advocated for the points I just disagreed with, but such is the nature of making an absolute line of reasoning.  If you don't conceed for exceptions that exist, implications are included whether intended or not.

This is absolutely wrong in Aces High. If you died, you made a less than perfect decision  somewhere and living does not mean you made good decisions. If you you made perfect decisions and died it is because of poor skills.

In game death means you screwed up no matter how you try to spin it. There are no random events in a computer program.

I agree its possible to die in real life without making a mistake but not in game.

The trick is to find the true cause of your death and not chalk it up to fate/lag/voodoo.

Its always there, if you are completely honest with yourself.

[drdeathx]

its the devils fault!

[awrabbit]

Murdr,

I agree with what you are saying as well....  And I try to play this game and be respectful everyones views and still do my thing while playing the game.

I indeed try to play within what is considered honorable and acceptable in AH.  Some folks choose to do things different from the accepted norm of the game.

What I was trying to say was from past and present experiences in on line flight Sims.  And I just try not to let those things get me down about Aces High.

I agree with your views and respect your point. 

The day I posted this I was on my daily commute to work thinking about AH on the way ( it is a 1 hour drive )  most of this stuff popped into my head over the course of the day and I thought that it would be a nice topic to post for new players
  If not just to help some of the new people maybe understand how I myself as a individual  approaches the game and tries to be a member of the AH community.

There is no correct or incorrect way to play.   


Flying and Fighting in AH there is not predictable out come to what will happen within the game. You can think that you have all of the bases covered and end up taking a long walk back to the hangar.  Heck sometimes ya get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you. 

Flying too safe and not mixing it up is boring and if someone acts up with poor actions then it should policed by the community.  indeed shine the spot light on them and bring to light what they are doing is not acceptable.

If I would have thought my first post through a bit more I would had pointed out some of the points that you have made in your post.

Heck I didnt do too bad.... most of the time you need a Rabbit decoder ring to unscramble the things that bounce through my mind when I make a post.

Regards.

Rabbit

[Murdr]

There are no random events in a computer program.

Puffy ack.  Severity of: pilot wound, oil leak, radiator leak, fuel leak, length of time until fire caused catastrophic damage.  Gun dispersion.

If you you made perfect decisions and died it is because of poor skills.

 

An LTAR once spawned and took off from an airfield with several friendlies over the field, and a single enemy on dar over 4 miles from from the field.  He died rolling on the runway from a 5" HVAR fired from the enemy outside of icon range.  I know this because I fired the rocket aiming 1/3rd way down the runway from over 3-1/2 miles away.  The only mistake you can conclude is deciding to take off from a fully acked field with friendly cover was flawed because of a single unknown enemy outside of icon range.  That is pattently silly, because the odds of what happened is extremely rare.  It was bad "luck" for him.  Like I said sometimes an honest review only leaves risk mitigation as the only place to improve, and players unwilling to take risks are not fun to play with.