Bomber Defensive Fire

[Sloehand]

My firing pattern differs depending on aircraft, closing speed and angle.  Closing fairly fast with a good cannon-equiped plane, I'll fire a very short, single station ranging burst at 1000m, then another again at 800m, setting up for the devastating, all-station long burst(s) at 600m or less.  Given that most aircraft have wing mounted guns and a convergence setting maximum at 650d, (which is usually set shorter than that in fighters), you can hold your full fire until 600m without taking too much damage unless the fighter pilot is really, really good at killing buffs.  And if he's that good, he probably isn't attacking from the rear aspect.

If it's a 110, Mossie, or even a Typhie (with four Hispanos like the Mossie), I'll definitely shoot seriously, sooner.  I never give the 110 with four 20mm's and two 30mm's a chance to set up a steady long distance shot at 1K, which with all centerline cannons and a decent pilot, can hit quickly and hard.  And they can be a tough kill themselves.

Typically though, if any fighter tries to attack a U.S. heavy bomber from the rear aspect, they have one wing already tearing loose and fluttering to the ground, even though they don't yet know it.   

[OOZ662]

.50 Cal/12.7mm round

Maximum Range 7,440 yd (6,800 m)
Maximum Effective Range Area Target: 2,000 yd (1,830 m)
Point Target: 1,640 yd (1,500 m)

There are multiple kinds of .50 rounds. Make me wonder if this was for a sniper rifle's casing. Having no knowledge on this subject, there's nothing behind it...just curious.

[Airborne]

There are multiple kinds of .50 rounds. Make me wonder if this was for a sniper rifle's casing. Having no knowledge on this subject, there's nothing behind it...just curious.

no, the barret with a match round can fire beyond this; this data is for the M2 (Ma-Duece) .50 cal (the asme machinegun from WWII, same build, etc...) while the rounds are different, they have to a close degree, the same ballistics. The new .50's are reaching further due to advances in the bullets themselves, not so much the weapon.

[Krusty]

There's "actual physical range" where the bullet still travels, then there's "effective range where you can realistically expect to hit anything."

While the 50cal round can physically penetrate 2x 1/2 inch steel plates 3 feet apart from each other at a mile out, there's no way this can be done other than with a sniper rifle, a steady prone firing position, a well marked target, a non-moving target, and a highly advanced optical scope. Oh, and only with 1 round, not a machine gun firing 600 rounds a minute.

The realistic effective range of 50cals on armed WW2 aircraft was 300 yards (most "killing" combats being far closer than that). Many things including dispersion of the rounds, vibrations of the gun, the wings of the plane, turbulence of the air, the shaking of the gunsight, human error, imaccuracies in the gun mount or optics, means that the way AH bombers are modeled is way way above and beyond their historical capabilities. A good portion of this is the fact that bombers in AH fly with 1/4 fuel, meaning they fly faster and climb faster than historically, and that they run at full throttle, reducing closing speeds of most attackers to less than 50mph, where historically attacking fighters had several hundred MPH with which to make slashing attacks.

So, even though it's not a total fix, if there was some way of slowing bombers down in this game to historic levels, that would go a long way to reducing the 1.7k hits they seem to get so frequently. The guns themselves could use some tweaks too, but this would solve a lot of problems.

[Airborne]

My firing pattern differs depending on aircraft, closing speed and angle.  Closing fairly fast with a good cannon-equiped plane, I'll fire a very short, single station ranging burst at 1000m, then another again at 800m, setting up for the devastating, all-station long burst(s) at 600m or less.  Given that most aircraft have wing mounted guns and a convergence setting maximum at 650d, (which is usually set shorter than that in fighters), you can hold your full fire until 600m without taking too much damage unless the fighter pilot is really, really good at killing buffs.  And if he's that good, he probably isn't attacking from the rear aspect.

If it's a 110, Mossie, or even a Typhie (with four Hispanos like the Mossie), I'll definitely shoot seriously, sooner.  I never give the 110 with four 20mm's and two 30mm's a chance to set up a steady long distance shot at 1K, which with all centerline cannons and a decent pilot, can hit quickly and hard.  And they can be a tough kill themselves.

Typically though, if any fighter tries to attack a U.S. heavy bomber from the rear aspect, they have one wing already tearing loose and fluttering to the ground, even though they don't yet know it.   

what about if an IL2 is attacking with 2x 37's? lol, I actually found myself co-alt with lancs at 7k today while flying to CAS against attacking GV's at our Vbase, and a quick burst (2 rounds, 1 ea. gun) dropped the tail off the lancs..... the last lanc was difficult, as it started to pull away in a dive, but i did snap his wing off. lol was a fun trip, well worth the long flight in an il2

[SlapShot]

There's "actual physical range" where the bullet still travels, then there's "effective range where you can realistically expect to hit anything."

While the 50cal round can physically penetrate 2x 1/2 inch steel plates 3 feet apart from each other at a mile out, there's no way this can be done other than with a sniper rifle, a steady prone firing position, a well marked target, a non-moving target, and a highly advanced optical scope. Oh, and only with 1 round, not a machine gun firing 600 rounds a minute.

None of this (with the exception of the gun and the modern .50 cal round) has anything to do with whether the round will  be effective ... it has everything to do with "if" you will hit the target.

The realistic effective range of 50cals on armed WW2 aircraft was 300 yards (most "killing" combats being far closer than that). Many things including dispersion of the rounds, vibrations of the gun, the wings of the plane, turbulence of the air, the shaking of the gunsight, human error, imaccuracies in the gun mount or optics, means that the way AH bombers are modeled is way way above and beyond their historical capabilities.

Depends upon the application of the gun ...

A "mounted" .50 cal gun ...

The M2 has a maximum range of 7.4 kilometers (4.55 miles), with a maximum effective range of 1.8 kilometers (1.2 miles) when fired from the M3 tripod. In its ground-portable, crew-served role as the M2HB, the gun itself weighs in at a hefty 84 pounds (38 kg), and the assembled M3 tripod another 44 pounds (20 kg).


Not sure what exact mount was used in bombers, but it would be safe to say that they were "mounted" and why would the effective range on a .50 cal mounted in a bomber be any different ?

Mounted in an airplane ...

From World War II through the Vietnam War, the big Browning was used with standard ball, armor-piercing (AP), armor-piercing incendiary (API), and armor-piercing incendiary tracer (APIT) rounds. All .50 ammunition designated "armor-piercing" was required to completely perforate 0.875" (22.2 mm) of hardened steel armor plate at a distance of 100 yards (91 m), and 0.75" (19 mm) at 547 yards (500 m).


Most people who die to (and whine about) the AH bombers from 800-1.2K out are the ones that sit on the bombers direct six and fly straight and level thinking they are safe.

[Vulcan]

Most people who die to (and whine about) the AH bombers from 800-1.2K out are the ones that sit on the bombers direct six and fly straight and level thinking they are safe.

^ what he said. Most people climb up a buffs 6. Best attacks are 10 oclock -> 4 oclock or 2 oclock -> 8 oclock slashes. If you actually aim at the buff you're doing it wrong. You should be slashing through the formation firing ahead of the buff before you even get him in your gunsight. At such angles/speeds you make a very difficult target.