Remove the distance in the icons

[Jekyll]

 

Yes and give us all the same puter and monitor don't forget we all don't have NASA puters and 56" monitors Icons are there to keep a somewhat level playing field for lowend users thanks.

Don't know too many people flying AH with that configuration Torque.

Lets face it.  Laser ranging icons are THE main reason why AH is currently a game, and not a flight sim.

Distance tags in icons have a huge effect on gameplay, promoting unrealistic long range gunnery and diminishing the value of realistic defensive maneuvers.

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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/phoenix
Aces High Training Corps

[Toad]

 

Originally posted by Jekyll:
Laser ranging icons are THE main reason why AH is currently a game, and not a flight sim.

Jekyll, go buy yourself an hour in a certified flight simulator for about $500.

[Maverick]

They can take out the distance in icons at the same time they put depth perception into the game and limit the type / brand of planes each country can fly as well as monitor size and resolution the game is to be played in.

Icons don't create the spray and pray, they do more to prevent it. If you know the target is out of range then you don't fire. No idea of range and you will have more players firing to see if the target IS in range.

Want to reduce long range firing???? Reduce gun range in game (and it is a game not a true sim) as well as lethality for the cannon planes. Limit convergence to 300 yards / meters and have tracers disappear at 500 yards with bullets turning to dust at 700 yards. That will truly limit the long range firing but it wouldn't be "realistic" would it?


Mav

[Paxil]

This topic always seems to come up... but you are kidding yourself if you think removing the icons would make the game more realistic. Until monitors have the resolution of my eyeball, we are going to have a hard time losing the markers. Look up in the sky and you can ID planes miles away... try that in AH! Fact is... monitors can't represent distance well enough yet... hence... the need for the markers. Taking them off would certainly make it *less* realistic because we'd be flying with much less awareness than an actual pilot has. Harder does not always = more realistic.

[snafu]

Hi All,
 Plenty of life in this one I feel. I don't think the range is the problem with the current setup. Even the icons themselves aren't really the problem. Of course it would be more realistic without them.(Although not with the current spit V spit set up in the MA and most peoples video set up's). The problem I think is the different colours used for friend & foe. It would make more sense for all icons to be the same colour (Preferably selectable for us colourblind types   ). The big letdown with AH (IMO) is the ease with which you can identify the enemy in a furball etc. At least if the icons were the same colour some form of identification would be necessary before diving into a melee with a few K alt advantage.

TTFN
snafu

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  snafus Homepage

 

[This message has been edited by snafu (edited 11-29-2000).]

[Jekyll]

 

Jekyll, go buy yourself an hour in a certified flight simulator for about $500.

And your point is?

Tell ya what Toad.  You find me a post on this BBS, ANY post, in which HT refers to Aces High as a sim, and not a game, and I'll go get that hour.

 

They can take out the distance in icons at the same time they put depth perception into the game

Then put the same feature into AH as has existed since forever in Air Warrior: - the ability to scale your gunsight size to the range of the opposing aircraft.  Those who flew AW will remember how you could expand and contract your gunsight.  If you had your gunsight set at 400yds range, the opponent was 400yds away when its wings touched the edge of the gunsight circle.

[This message has been edited by Jekyll (edited 12-01-2000).]

[Maniac]

"If you had your gunsight set at 400yds range, the opponent was 400yds away when its wings touched the edge of the gunsight circle."

This sounds like an great feature!

<PUNT>  

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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-

[Toad]

Actually two points:

1. There are VERY MANY things that keep AH from being a "flight simulator" rather than a "WW2 based ACM GAME". "Laser ranging icons are THE main reason is an simply incorrect statement. The icons are merely a very minor reason.

2. Correct me if I am wrong, but I suspect you have no time in a six-axis motion certified flight simulator? So my second point is that you have no basis for reference until you do.

Good GAME, but a GAME none the less.

[hitech]

Simply put Aces high is a game. If you ask what type of game is it. Its an air combat sim.

If you guys realy feel the need to debate a sim v game. I think you should both define your terms very precisly.

HiTech

[Toad]

I agree HT.

The term "simulator" gets tossed around pretty lightly.

A Class II or III Flight Simulator is an awesome device. There is absolutely no way you can even begin to approach it on a desktop computer with peripheral devices.

AH is a Game and that is not derogatory in any sense. It's a very good, immersive PC program. I really enjoy it.

I do get a little tired of people that expect ANY PC program (not just AH) to substitute as a true flight simulator.


Jekyll:

This little icon debate has gone on forever and probably always will. The simple fact is that when you cram a big 3D world into a 2D 19" monitor you are never going to get "real world" results.

In a Class II or III device, the windows are real-sized windows; the FOV is the actual FOV. Objects are exactly and correctly sized and thus artificial range information is not required. In short, it looks like it would look if you were actually flying.

I've never said Icons couldn't stand a bit of experimentation or improvement. However, IMHO they are always going to be necessary in a 2D computer monitor environment with a scaled FOV. Range information, in some form, needs to be part of that if you really want "real life info".

As I said, this horse is beaten. I'm out.

[Eagler]

 

Originally posted by hitech:
Simply put Aces high is a game. If you ask what type of game is it. Its an air combat sim.

If you guys realy feel the need to debate a sim v game. I think you should both define your terms very precisly.

HiTech

No No No ...

AH is real, the wife, kids, dog and mortgage are the game  

As for icons, I vote for no plane type or distance on enemy planes, just a red dot, 6k range. On friendlies, just name and a green dot.
Really like to see a scenario without any icons, maybe a smaller map so you don't fly around all day without running into someone.

But then again, being from Florida, what's my vote worth?  

Eagler

[sling322]

Maybe i am missing something here, but cant you turn the icons off?  I recall someone at sometime telling me that you could.

If I am wrong, then never mind.  This post was just a figment of your imagination.  

[Jekyll]

 

Range information, in some form, needs to be part of that if you really want "real life info".

Couldn't agree more Toad.  I suppose the disappointing part is that the range icon system we have in Aces High is no different from that which existed in Air Warrior, Warbirds etc.

Ain't it about time that a different approach was tried?  Maybe a sliding bar beneath the aircraft type, ranging down from 6000yds to 0.  Or a closure bar, or ANYTHING other than the same old system that's been around for ages, and has been disliked for ages.

I mean, would we settle for 1990 quality graphics in a 2000 game?  So why do we meekly accept 1985 style icons?