Suicide JABOS and CV's

[brady]

I know it has been said a thousand time by as many people but when I see one P 47 diving on a cv and he kills it it ticks me off

[Kingonads]

U 2.  I Hate suicide bombers in the MA all U ever see is suicide bombers, B17s diving in or JU88s diving in or P51Ds or P47s or now Mossys standing on nose and diving in and crashing into the deck, or my favorite was the Knight horde of 6 planes that dove in on the CV all died and they all missed the CV.  Should be some kinda penelty or some loss of perks.

                         Hodo

[skernsk]

Well..I never go attacking a CV expecting to live through the hail of ack.

Then again I've never hit the damn thing anyway

[K West]

Just wait till a pilot can control four Lancs, B17's or B26's  

See CV...nose over .... drop!  Oh my 40 plus 1,000 lbers hdg for the ole flat top!  yeeeee haaaaaa

 Westy


<g,d,rlh...>

[air_guard]

or a b26,b17,lancaster coming in at 7k flying straight trough the ack and deliver the load on cv, then turning back landing on base without damage lol (ok 1 eninge on fire maybe).

airguard

[Kingonads]

It is quite possible to dive in on a CV and drop bombs and hit it and survive just dont do that pull out at 3k or less crap.  Before the hostile shores event I read a article on high alt dive bombing from 20k release at 9-12k and hit target, I practiced and I practiced untill after about 100 trys I got it right no I am about 70% accurate with it in the F6F and the P47D models but every plane is different in a dive I suggest you practice it to.  


                     Hodo

[Wotan]

during hostile shores I was tasked with flying 190f8s and ordered to dive bomb a cv.]


A 190f8 alone wont sink I cv but I could hit it easy and get out of the ack most of the time. U just need to start your dive higher up and release ord higher then roll into a shallow dive away from the ack.

It takes practice to determin the amount of lead but it can be done. I made 3 190f8 attacks in the main and sank the nme cv and rtbd safe.

but like anything else folks go for instant gratification rather then have any interest in taking their toime.

An example of this is yesterday I was on the rearm pad when a guy came barreling and killed me and either died from ack or augered, instant kill for him. But it was a small field and only 5 ack left up 2 of them manned guns. He could of easily strafed the ack dwn and vulched his arse off. Ah but fek 1 fer 1 is just as fun  

[Tac]

Want to keep your CV? CAP it. Want to use it as an almighty flak field and 5"+ battleship to kill a land based airfield but DONT want to protect it? Gimme a break.

Its almost as if the "suicide" planes coming in dont come in low (around 10k), heavy and slow (300mph or less).

But no one wants to cap the CV, since the furball is OVER the enemy field. Tough luck, your cv died. 3 or 4 planes can effectively cap the CV. give it a try, you get easy kills.

[Buzzbait]

S!

It is true that it is quite easy to kill a CV or Cruiser with a single fighter bomber with 2 1000lb bombs.  I have done it quite a few times, and usually I survive.  Personally I prefer a Typhoon because they climb better and have better speed with two bombs, but a Hellcat or Corsair will do too.  A P-47 takes too long to get up to 10,000 ft, which is the best height to start your dive.

I know all you guys are complaining about this because it seems unfair that a single plane can screw up 2 hours of moving a CV into position...

Well, learn to live with it.  

Historically ships were extremely vulnerable to aircraft attacks.  There are literally hundreds of instances which can be pointed to of a few aircraft sinking huge ships.

The real problem is the bozos in the MA who create a course for a TG that parks it on the beach in front of the enemy Airfield, then don`t bother to put up any AIRCAP over the CV.  Plus they don`t bother to maneuver the TG when an enemy aircraft appears.

Big surprise when their nice aircraft carrier goes end up and slides into the drink lickity split.

The first responsibility for someone commanding a TG is to make sure they are CAPing it.  Jump into a F6f or a Corsair, even a Zeke with some alt. can do the job against a heavily loaded fighter bomber.

I was on the MA the other day, when someone sent a TG right in close.  There was no CAP to speak of, just a bunch of aircraft down low furballing off the field which was the target.  I got into a F6f and climbed to 10k.  (needed to get up quick, otherwise I would have taken a F4UD)  Over the next 20 minutes I got 6 or so kills of heavy Corsairs or F6f`s or P-38`s which were trying to take out the CV.  There were also a bunch of planes killed down low which were trying torpedo runs.  I got a couple Ju88s.  If the TG hadn`t been so close to the enemy field it might have survived, but a combination of Shore battery fire and a Corsair which got through to drop a couple eggs did it in.

If you are going to take a TG into harm`s way, then make sure you got the CAP to protect it.  In my opinion, a couple Corsairs up high, (this is where the C-Hog would shine) would take care of any problems.

After you got the CAP in place, then start to think about launching TBM`s and heavy Fighters to take out the target.  Or if there is nothing showing in the DAR bar, then launch your first strike, then put up CAP for the inevitable response which will come when the opposing side spots the heavy numbers showing up at the target base.

[Voss]

Every now and then someone will provide CAP for the CV. Every now and then we get the SB's killed before assaulting a field. Every now and then someone will take over CAP duties as the first CAP lands to rearm. Every now and then we can get things moving toward shutting down a field with the Task Group, launching LVT's, defensive PT's, and even JABO defense against opposing PT's.

But, all it takes is one skilless turd with two eggs diving into the carrier deck, or one wave top turd flying headlong into ack and the CV's waterline, and the CV is dead.
 
I don't think you can point to one event in WWII where a CV died to a single fighter.

Still, I wonder why these same turds don't just fly an Arado? You come in at 10k, drop one ship length in front of CV, and then you fly home. I've done it at least fifty times this tour and died only twice (one 262 got me fair and square after his CV died, one 152 caught me pre-strike while I was AFK).

Manning the defensive guns I can tell you one thing I've noticed. It's the same skilless guys time-after-time. After all, the reason they dive into the carrier deck is they can't hit it otherwise.

[Blue Mako]

May I point out here that kamikaze attacks were feared by the US fleet in the Pacific in WW2.  Why?  Because they were effective and were used a lot.

Game mimics life...

[eskimo2]

Ships sink when bombs hit them.
It's part of the game.
Get over it.

eskimo

[Buzzbait]

S!

Actually the most unrealistic aspect of the game is allowing level bombers like the Arado, B-17 or B-26 hit CV`s from 10,000 or even 20,000 ft.

IT DIDN`T HAPPEN.  

The U.S. quickly realized these type of attacks were useless, never hit anything and taught their bomber pilots how to skip bomb from 500 ft.  (there were even some instances of B-17`s down on the deck skip bombing)

On the other hand, the issue of the Jabo and/or Dive bomber hitting a ship is well documented.  The dive bombers were much more accurate, due to their dive brakes giving them more time to line up the target, but fighters also did the job.

A Me109F, (yes, an Me109F) carrying a 1000lb egg, dive bombed a British Cruiser off Crete during that battle and sent it to the bottom.  

After a while, in the Pacific, the USN didn`t bother to field any TBM`s or Helldivers on their CV`s...  The Hellcats and Corsairs could do just as good a job.

There should be a little more bomb drift on dropped eggs, but at the same time, the laser flak is too lethal, at least the high alt stuff.  The small calibre guns should be lethal in close.

[Wotan]

brady never said a bomb shouldn't sink a cv.

The reading comprehension of most folks reading this board amazes me.

Brady is talking about "suicidal dweebs" who make no effort to survive and go out of their way to kill themselves.

of course a cv should be sinkable but with there being no expectation to rtb for these folks its just dweeby.

Voss is right that a buff can do it(which is unreal as the suicidals) but a jabo attack can be made against a cv and you can survive. Yes its "harder" and may take more then 1 attempt. Even with cap a p38/p47 hell bent on killing himself will sink the cv.

But this "suicidal attitude" is practiced time and time again over different targets.

Theres nothing that HTC can do. Even uppin the strength of the cv wont stop umm. CV are worthless imho outside defending their own port.

If your incapable of following the topic of a thread start your own.

[ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]

[Tac]

If you think about it, why do people kamikaze on a cv?

1)CV tracer A-A is singleping kill. Dive on it and try to drop bombs from 6k or lower (to at least get a marginal chance at hitting), the tracer ack is extremely likely to get you.

2)Manned 5" flak. Try it yourself, man a 5" and fire at the incoming planes, especially those initiating a dive. They so easy to kill it barely takes 2 salvos.

3)The CV has to be killed in order to STOP the endless hordes of planes from taking off. The CV can pork a field out of fuel and out of ammo and out of hangars. Can you "damage" the CV so it stops launching planes for a while? Nope. Planning and executing a CV strike with others takes time... time in which you will lose the field.

4)It WORKS when compared to trying "safe" attacks on the fleet.

Making the CV tougher will only make me kamikaze on it more times. The ONLY thing that will prevent this is to have a CAP. It seems to me that all ye want is the CV to defend itself while they merrily go furballing. Sadly, its already set up that way... look at the first 2 reasons on the list. And its why people like me just kamikaze the bloody thing. Think of it as simulating "a whole squadron of planes" attacking the CV. I remember reading the reason why the fleet ack was so deadly was because it "simulated an entire taffy AA defenses". So which way do you want it?