Thoughts on the P-47N

[Serenity]

It is great at dumping E...but when you make them overshoot, what do you have? A 500mph target in guns range for .05 seconds before it zooms back up to 15K. Forcing overshoots as a lifestyle instead of guns defense is for living gunnery computers like Batfink.

lol. Its good practice though! Ive yet to make a shot like that, but when youre alone below them, its not bad. I prefer to make them slowly burn E, so I can smack them down in a stall fight.

[Anaxogoras]

Interesting comments.  Maybe I'll try the D models another tour.  In my experience if you run into a good stick in, e.g. an La-7 or Spitfire XVI, you're really out of options in the D-40 or even the D-11.  The tactics described here work well against nooblings, but not against a decent stick with an altitude advantage.

[Serenity]

Interesting comments.  Maybe I'll try the D models another tour.  In my experience if you run into a good stick in, e.g. an La-7 or Spitfire XVI, you're really out of options in the D-40 or even the D-11.  The tactics described here work well against nooblings, but not against a decent stick with an altitude advantage.

It depends on how you come at it. These last few days, my awesome switch was somehow turned on in the D-11, and as long as I keep my speed, (Come in with at least a 1k alt advantage) just don't get stupid and you're golden!

[Anaxogoras]

It depends on how you come at it. These last few days, my awesome switch was somehow turned on in the D-11, and as long as I keep my speed, (Come in with at least a 1k alt advantage) just don't get stupid and you're golden!

Ahhh, yes, it is always nice to have an altitude advantage.

[Serenity]

Ahhh, yes, it is always nice to have an altitude advantage.

lol. It is, but thats just in furballs. As long as Im going 1 v 1, I will take any plane down in the weeds. Last night, I had a GREAT fight with a Typhoon, (Feend I think it was). We started with me in a D-11 at about 18,500 and his Typhoon around 20,000. He dove in on me, I climbed up behind him, and we entered about an 8-10 minute stall fight that slowly descended down into the grass. I got a few pings at altitude, as did he, and I put the last burst into his right wing at about 20 ft and 200mph, just in time to see a Spit VIII behind me. A quick barrel roll and a snap-shot, and the Spitfire too was gone, and I was home free. Now Ill admit, while a good pilot could do this on a regular basis, the uber-performance these last 3 days from is highly unusual. I really feel like someone flicked a switch, and I suddenly became an ace. But, regardless of my sudden discovery of skill, the P-47 can obviously "hang with the big boys", and as long as you don't do something stupid, you can win a lot of fights against unsuspecting dweeb-planes. Of course, a single mis-step and you will probably be surrounded.

[BnZs]

Jugs have the qualities of excellent diving speed, roll rate, firepower, and unexpected levels of turning ability.

However, when flying a D, I always have to ask myself, WTF, why am I  not in a C-Hog? Same qualities plus insane turning ability?

No, there is only one Jug that can exceed 360mph on the deck. You can turn with a Pony, 190, Typh, La7 in a D-11 or an N. Which is more likely to catch the %@$%$$ though? A SpitXVI has it all over either Jug in maneuverability... but which is more likely to outrun the sucker?

[Serenity]

Jugs have the qualities of excellent diving speed, roll rate, firepower, and unexpected levels of turning ability.

However, when flying a D, I always have to ask myself, WTF, why am I  not in a C-Hog? Same qualities plus insane turning ability?

No, there is only one Jug that can exceed 360mph on the deck. You can turn with a Pony, 190, Typh, La7 in a D-11 or an N. Which is more likely to catch the %@$%$$ though? A SpitXVI has it all over either Jug in maneuverability... but which is more likely to outrun the sucker?

D-11 isn't all that slow. And she's a LOT more maneuverable than the N. While they both CAN turn with the above planes, the November only by a slim margin. If youre not flying to the max, you won't make it. The D-11 can afford to lighten up a little. It all comes down to how you fight. I don't like BnZing much. I want to be able to get dirty. The D-11 is for me. If you like high-speed hit and runs, take the N.

[BnZs]

D-11 isn't all that slow. And she's a LOT more maneuverable than the N. While they both CAN turn with the above planes, the November only by a slim margin. If youre not flying to the max, you won't make it. The D-11 can afford to lighten up a little. It all comes down to how you fight. I don't like BnZing much. I want to be able to get dirty. The D-11 is for me. If you like high-speed hit and runs, take the N.

The MA is not the DA. "Close" is good enough in turning, skill can make up a whole lot, but no one is so skilled they can make their bird fly faster.

The D-11 tops out at 343 on the deck. That is slower than a Spit16, slower than a Hog, slower than a Ki-84. Hell, a mid-war 109 G2 can catch it. These are of the birds that will willingly fight your Jug 1v1, albeit they'll usually want alt and positional advantage first.

Then you have your 190s, P-51s, Typhs, heavy 109s, things you might wish to slow down and dogfight with, as  I mentioned. Which should you appear to be getting the better of them in any way in your D-11, will oh so bravely run away with ease.

[Serenity]

The MA is not the DA. "Close" is good enough in turning, skill can make up a whole lot, but no one is so skilled they can make their bird fly faster.

I don't fight in the DA at all, only LWMAs, and from the way I fight, I get nothing from a November while im landing 5 kills in a D-11. Its a matter of preferance really, as they are actually very different in a fight.

[BnZs]

I don't fight in the DA at all, only LWMAs, and from the way I fight, I get nothing from a November while im landing 5 kills in a D-11. Its a matter of preferance really, as they are actually very different in a fight.

It's all in your mind then. Unless you are taking way too much fuel in the N. One of the two. Also, if you land 5 kills in a D-11 with any regularity at all, you'd be a madman in a F4U

EDIT: I just checked. Your K/D ratio in the P-47D11 was 6-28 last tour and is 20-5 this tour. That kind of progress in that timeframe, I got to strongly suspect PEDs. Pass some over here...

[bozon]

Hey guys, just a bit of clarification. The P-47N is the only Jug to have wing tanks, and those are only 93 gallons per wing (labeled as AUX in the game?).

"only" 93 gallons?! That is almost the full internal fuel load of a 109... in each wing... and those are just for extra range. The internal fuel load of a fully fueled P47N is enough for 5 109s and a 6th one filled to 20%. If 50% is not enough for you, take a DT.

For 5 minutes of greatly boosted performance on WEP you get:
- reduced lethality due to the guns being even further out (wing extended to allow for fuel tanks). Major convergence issue.
- The added wing area does not compensate for the extra weight.
- without WEP it is the worst performing jug - slowest, worst climb, worst turn.
- Worse jabo than the D40 (takes longer time to climb and get to the target). Only advantage is if you saved the wep for the gettaway after the dive bombing, but then your climb was REALLY slow.

For AH comdition, a razorback jug with a paddle blade (D11 with better climb than D40) would be the ultimate 47 (M model excluded).

[Rebel]

Ahhh, yes, it is always nice to have an altitude advantage.

Well, dude, if You're in a -47, ANY 47 for that matter, but ESPECIALLY the D-11, that should be the desired position from the get go.

Further thoughts- if you're going in to furball (i.e. not attack the base/strafe town, etc.), take the light 8 50 cals. 

Even with the light ammo, you'll find yourself gettin thirsty before you find yourself out of ammo (unless you're me, in which case God help you shoot straighter )

In terms of fighting in the D-11... I've found that if you *do* wind up low and slow, don't despair.   The thing can frustrate anybody with an altitude advantage, and has a GREAT way to thwart even a zero-

When they're into the attack, haul back on the stick, roll into the attack, and STOMP your rudder- and KEEP the pressure on the stick.  If you're doing more then 350, pop out a notch of flaps.  That roll/pitch maneuver is nigh impossible to follow provided you've timed it right. 

What this does is gains you a brief amount of altitude, absolutely SLAUGHTERS forward velocity, and combines all 3 inputs- against a control stiffened enemy, you may even be able to get a snapshot off- the main objective is to force a horrible overshoot.  Easy to do in the Jug - the D-11 most especialy.

After they overshoot, relax pressure on the stick and rudder, complete the roll, putting the lift vector where you wanna head to (base or friendlies), unload, punch the WEP, and dive as far as you can to pick up as much speed as possible- don't forget to rack in the flaps and "clean up". 



By the time the other guy has reversed, you'll be back up to maneuvering speed.

Of course, the idea is you never find yourself low and slow, but don't go hauling back 6G's non-stop.  The Jug just doesn't have the power to pull 7 tons of Jugly goodness around like that.  But with this maneuver I've found that I can generally survive long enough to drag 'em to ack or to friendlies eager for a nice meaty kill. 

[Anaxogoras]

Well, dude, if You're in a -47, ANY 47 for that matter, but ESPECIALLY the D-11, that should be the desired position from the get go.

Oh, absolutely Rebel.  But in context these guys were bragging as if they regularly kill Spit16s and La-7s from a position of disadvantage.

It sounds like the D-11 is the favorite among the 47 fans.  I'll give it a try one of these tours, but I doubt I'll be killing as many 190D-9s and P-51s in it.

[Rebel]

Oh, absolutely Rebel.  But in context these guys were bragging as if they regularly kill Spit16s and La-7s from a position of disadvantage.

It sounds like the D-11 is the favorite among the 47 fans.  I'll give it a try one of these tours, but I doubt I'll be killing as many 190D-9s and P-51s in it.

Hehehe, you'd be surprised.  Spit-16's and LA-7's are generally flown by complete n00bs.  If you're at low altitude and you pull that reversal, half the time they spin in and auger

190d's and 51's will generally try to turn with you- which is a death sentence.  I dunno why, but everybody seems to think the P47 is some hapless beached whale.  Make 'em realize the truth- it's a big bad great white shark just waiting to get his tasty treats

Show those runnin' knob goblins what for!

[MjTalon]

Well, i'll add my $0.02 as well since everyone else is doing it.  


Before i rejoined JG11 i was the CO of a all P47 squadron, the 78th FG. And during my time flying the jug i've come to respect it even though I don't fly it anymore. It is a amazing aircraft and truly capable of doing some amazing things with the right stick behind it ( remember our P47 190 Fight gavagai? )

I personally favor the P47D11 & D25 versions only. Why? Because they are the best air to air dog fighters in the jug series. The D11 is the lightest but also the slowest so with that said you  should never get low and slow with a jug if you don't know what you're doing. The D25 is the best in my opinion because it's a mixture of the D11 & D40. It has the maneuverability of the D11 with the engine and high alt performance of the D40 and the visibility as well.

MY opinion on the N? It's only advantage over the other jugs are the WEP, very high alt performance, and range. Other than that it's useless. As the N was the PTO Jug version and the D11/D25 was the ETO versions i tend to sway my style towards the ETO. And that's why I truly believe we need the P47M. It was the ETO hot rod jug and it would make a great addition to the jug series as it was indeed the fastest of the lot.

I only used the N jug when i knew our flight was going to exceed the flight time of 1hr. Other than that, you're better off taking a D25 for any of your Jug needs. Hope that clears a bit.  


Edit: I didn't describe in detail how both they maneuver but if you want me to gavagai I'll breakdown my experiences with em both. If you check tour 105 under my old handle, you'll see my killstats in the Jugs.