All hail...

[pluck]

Anyone think that removing the mission tab might solve anything?

I think it would solve the problems of if you want to run missions, your squad has to work together. Although I do think people would work around this, I think it would reduce the glamorizing of joining a 30 man smack and grab mission. Especially to the new guy

Don't think it would have much of an effect.  They could just coordinate the same without the mission feature...then again, it might be a more painfull process to get a large group together in same planes.  I don't really think the mission tab is the issue, it's more of how it is used.  I don't think there is really anything wrong with missions themselves.  Maybe adding more tools to alert the opponent that a large horde is inbound.  Then again, the real issue is the idea that the end always justifies the means.  Skip over the journey part as much as possible.

[FALCONWING]

This is the one encounter I have with you to date but lets put it into perspective...this happened within the last week so I remember it well.  I was actually looking to post this so its awesome you did...

I logged on and viper215 asked for help to help take a knit base from a cv.  I upped a f4u-1c and flew to the base where we provided cover for a goon to sneak in.  Scotch was Bish at this point.  At one point I see him with a spit grabbing up behind him closing fast so I vox "omw scotch" and nail the spit.  I say "your clear" and the response is "I was roping him" ....hmm sounds a little annoyed so i check my roster and see he is AoM.  Tec is in the area too.  Ok i get it...but he never called me off.  Doesn't know me but instead of saying "thanks" or something pleasant i'm made to feel like i stole a kill during a base take (no vulching).  OK lesson learned...

We take the base thanks to tcfkas sneaking a goon in and i up a tempest to defend the CV.  The knit darbar is growing so i figure they will go for the cv.   I go afk and come back 1 sector off the knit base...my squaddies are fighting in between the bases so i figure i'll handle the higher planes and make them dive. I see a 109 grabbing away from the furball so i make a few passes and boom it is dead.  Oh snap..its Scotch...he has switched countries...didn't think helping him would be so offensive but ok.

I go back to help my squaddies and later see a 109 grabbing away again...I'm slower now and don't want to get jumped so i head over to try and make him lose alt/e.  I know I can't turnfight him and he can hammerhead me a lot better in the 109g then i can in the tempest.  Well he is target fixated...follows me everywhere.  Im getting low fuel so I head back to base...at least I'll get him away from the fight...he is locked out 1000 by my views...so my game changes....no kill for him    He can slow better then me so the old..."cut throttle and he will fly right by technique not likely to work".  He is in a better turner so that probably won't work....

Well he ignores many good fights and follows me into the field....I run out of fuel over the field and have to try and ditch...the bish around me let me know he is coming and sure enough as I am touching down he is trying to vulch me landing  (let me know which training class that is please).  I slide to a halt and land successfully...tower views show him getting destroyed by the ack...

Now i could have vulched him taking off...I could have been gamey...but he actually sees flying a tempest according to the situation as something worth posting...I could have taunted him or pm'd him...but to him this is a bad encounter...he gets ganged in the end because he chose to follow me for so long and so far into enemy cons....He had the numbers back at his base...Again I'm not impressed

[Getback]

That's some great flying Falc.

I have to give Scotch the nod in that fight. Although he has an over developed sense of vengeance. I mean he went after a tempest with a 109. I'm not sure which 109 though. He had to dodge an f4F, p38, p51 etc all the while. But Scotch, you sure missed a great shot on that p51. Fedj was practically stalled in front of you. Too much target fixation there.

[sunfan1121]

This is the one encounter I have with you to date but lets put it into perspective...this happened within the last week so I remember it well.  I was actually looking to post this so its awesome you did...

I logged on and viper215 asked for help to help take a knit base from a cv.  I upped a f4u-1c and flew to the base where we provided cover for a goon to sneak in.  Scotch was Bish at this point.  At one point I see him with a spit grabbing up behind him closing fast so I vox "omw scotch" and nail the spit.  I say "your clear" and the resonse is "I was roping him" ....hmm sounds a little annoyed so i check my roster and see he is AoM.  Tec is in the area too.  Ok i get it...but he never called me off.  Doesn't know me but instead of saying "thanks" or something pleasant i'm made to feel like i stole a kill during a base take (no vulching).  OK lesson learned...

We take the base thanks to tcfkas sneaking a goon in and i up a tempest to defend the CV.  The knit darbar is growing so i figure they will go for the cv.   I go afk and come back 1 sector off the knit base...my squaddies are fighting in between the bases so i figure i'll handle the higher planes and make them dive. I see a 109 grabbing away from the furball so i make a few passes and boom it is dead.  Oh snap..its Scotch...he has switched countries...didn't think helping him would be so offensive but ok.

I go back to help my squaddies and later see a 109 grabbing away again...I'm slower now and don't want to get jumped so i head over to try and make him lose alt/e.  I know I can't turnfight him and he can hammerhead me a lot better in the 109g then i can in the tempest.  Well he is target fixated...follows me everywhere.  Im getting low fuel so I head back to base...at least I'll get him away from the fight...he is locked out 1000 by my views...so my game changes....no kill for him    He can slow better then me so the old..."cut throttle and he will fly right by technique not likely to work".  He is in a better turner so that probably won't work....

Well he ignores many good fights and follows me into the field....I run out of fuel over the field and have to try and ditch...the bish around me let me know he is coming and sure enough as I am touching down he is trying to vulch me landing  (let me know which training class that is please).  I slide to a halt and land successfully...tower views show him getting destroyed by the ack...

Now i could have vulched him taking off...I could have been gamey...but he actually sees flying a tempest according to the situation as something worth posting...I could have taunted him or pm'd him...but to him this is a bad encounter...he gets ganged in the end because he chose to follow me for so long and so far into enemy cons....He had the numbers back at his base...Again I'm not impressed

Wow bro, you run to your ack and reverse him, nothing in this game is lamer than that. nuthin.

[Getback]

Wow bro, you run to your ack and reverse him, nothing in this game is lamer than that. nuthin.

2 sides to every story. Sure could use that film as a training tool for some folks (Not going to mention any names). It shows what to do and what not to do. Scotch had ample opportunity to leave. I don't think it's gamey to fly through field ack or town ack etc if that helps your cause. If someone wants you that bad shame on them. Still though I admire scotch for going after a higher tempest and take note he gave keystone a check 6 when Keystone would have been good bait. Notice too that keystone landed 3 kills because of scotch.

I think I know why Scotch hates land grabbing now though. His own ack killed him. 

[sunfan1121]

2 sides to every story. Sure could use that film as a training tool for some folks (Not going to mention any names). It shows what to do and what not to do. Scotch had ample opportunity to leave. I don't think it's gamey to fly through field ack or town ack etc if that helps your cause. If someone wants you that bad shame on them. Still though I admire scotch for going after a higher tempest and take note he gave keystone a check 6 when Keystone would have been good bait. Notice too that keystone landed 3 kills because of scotch.

I think I know why Scotch ates land grabbing now though. His own ack killed him. 

LOL what 2 sides falcon diddnt want to loose his perks so he ran to his ack, it's as simple as that. I

[The Fugitive]

I think everyone is getting to picky here....its the furballers fault.... its the landgrabbers fault....there is no need to pick on anyones way to play the game, however the problem we have is most are NOT playing the game. The game is combat (murdr will be along with the quote from HT soon  ) Hiding from the fight inside the horde, or under dar is the problem. The game is all about combat so why do so many hide from combat? If you don't want to be in combat why are you playing the game? Maybe you suck at combat, well learn to fight! It was pointed out that it is the responsibility of the vets to teach.... what a load of crap! The only responsibility anyone has in this game is to fight, period. On the other hand I have NEVER heard of a vet not helping someone who asked. The are a ton of resources here to learn to fight whether its in a fighter, a buff, or a GV.

Too many people want the easy way tho, so they hide in a crowd, or sneak undefended base in NOEs and run at the first sign of resistance. If a player comes to play this game they should want to fight, that should be enough incentive to learn to do it. Todays players are too busy looking at the scoreboard trying to climb to the top and "win the game". The score board doesn't show that though, it shows a board easily manipulated.

It seems like a pretty easy solution, learn to fight ! Nobody really dies, because its a game, and the game is combat! Learn to use your panzer to pick off that M8 as its racing across the countyside in a flanking move. Learn to level a town in a pass or two of buff groups. Learn to fight 3 vs 1 in fighters. Thats what this game is about. Learn to use the equipment and tactics to promote fights, and use strategy to win those fights.

[rip033]

Wow, and to think this all started when scotch accused POTW as being horders and base takers. Hey im all for the dogfight, i say we fix it to where you cant take bases any more to promote dogfighting just like Combat Flight Simulator did.... oh wait that game doesnt exist anymore. Simply because there was only one thing you could do and that was dogfight. Doing the same thing over and over gets boring after a while which i think makes this game thrive. For those of you that dislike the gameplay of others and quit, then there will only be someone to take your place. Because there are so many things different things to do. I dont care for the people that talk crap on 200 like they have the little man syndrome. That irritates me to no end but it wont stop me from playing. Just enjoy the things you do. thats what is important ,after all it is only a game.

[FALCONWING]

LOL what 2 sides falcon diddnt want to loose his perks so he ran to his ack, it's as simple as that. I

You can have all 5000+ of my fiter perks if you value them that much

No...i freely admit that when i saw how trgt fixated the tool was and given our previous encounter that i decided he was not going to get a  kill on me...he flew well enough to lock 1k  behind me and didnt give me many options...so base ack it was....

The fact he flew by many fights to reach me and missed easy shots on others is just funny...but the fact he decided he was going to vulch me landing is pathetic...I'm shocked he decided to post this film but I'm happy he did.  I'm glad the AoM embraces that as nothing to be suprised at...i personally was suprised...

[sunfan1121]

It makes me laugh that people think running to there ack is valid tactic. The fact that you think that was your only option is Even funnier to me. Maby if you stayed and fought, instead of getting outta dodge at the first sighn of trouble, you would know what to do in that situation. you had options, and your never gonna find out what they are by ack running.

[Getback]

Wow, I've been accused of taking the game way too seriously but some of you have real issues. I could honestly care less how Falconwng or Scotch flies. My only thought is what can I learn from this film if anything. Like I said it's a great training film for some folks. Personally I have no problem with Falconwng using ack, Isn't that why it's there? Haven't we all vulched. Now mostly I avoid vulching with ack up. I've done it in the pass on a limited basis though.

[BnZs]

It makes me laugh that people think running to there ack is valid tactic.

I saw an episode of "Dogfights" where a German did it...but I guess you can chalk it up to it being one of them dirty Nazis...

[RTHolmes]

It makes me laugh that people think running to there ack is valid tactic.

of course it is, if you find it a problem either kill em quicker or engage further from their ack so they cant run to it. I engaged some B24s yesterday in a spit VIII, managed a kill on the 2nd pass and went back for more. the 24s headed straight to their nearest friendly base and due to some well timed turns, accurate gunning and use of a shallow dive managed to take only non-critical damage. I kept attacking into the edge of ack range then broke off. a bit annoying that 2 of em made it home but drfritz got a salute for it rather than a whine about ack running. I should have made my first passes count and nailed him before he got to his ack...

edit: if its an ack running fighter, well you may not have killed him but you have neutralised his threat. thats a tactical win.

[BaldEagl]

BaldEagl I am only addressing the following paragraph from your post.

"As to the vets taking people under their wings and teaching them the finer aspects of the fight well, some of us don't have the time or just want to play during the time that we do have.  There are plenty of options available to anyone that wants to learn so don't lump this on the vets as being their fault."


In other threads I have stated that I just don't understand what the issue is concerning how the game is played.  I then read how all the vets state how little the new players know about ACM and other such things.  Then I read that the only way that the new players can learn is learn from the community which I would interpret as being taught by the players that know (vets).

I then run across a post concerning how the vets just don't have the time or whatever to teach the new folks.  I hope you don't mean that the new players have to solely depend on the Aces High Training Staff for their information.  As much help that they are, they are still few in numbers, and there is no way they can staff the TA to provide this training around the clock for new players.

Right when I think I understand, I get confused again.  The old timers want the new guys to learn, but they do not want to take the responsibility to help teach them.

I'm not speaking about all, because I have had some assistance from some of the "old pros".  Just recently I was honored to work one on one with Delirum.  It was a learning experience, and I'm still trying to put in practice what I learned, that is when I can keep an "old vet" from picking me when I'm in a one on one. 

So I ask this question respectfully.  If the "vets" don't have time and/or desire to help teach, then who should the new players turn to?

Another confusing moment

Fred

There's no need to be confused.  There are more than the trainers availble.  There's the trainers web-site, the Help and Training forum, the Aircraft and Vehicle forum and numerous outside resources.  And who do you think the primary contributors are to these?  You guessed right... the vets.

Did I forget to mention those that ARE willing to go to the DA or TA with a newer player?  Did I forget those that are in squads and can take the time to impart knowledge as they fly their missions?  When my squad had more than the two people we have in it now there was a guy, already a pretty good stick, that was always on squad channel asking me about plane match-ups; can this outrun that?  Can that out-turn this?  I was gald to help because it wasn't something extracuricular that I had to do.  I could do it while continuing on with my flight.

I suppose I'd be willing to help people but no one ever asks.  At some point the new player has to have some initiative of their own to want to learn and if they do there's plenty of knowledge already available.

[Getback]

edit: if its an ack running fighter, well you may not have killed him but you have neutralised his threat. thats a tactical win.

Then you can move on to the others that need killin!