Craigs List Posting

[CAVPFCDD]

I'm not arguing the law if you say its the law challenge, but does anyone else think it makes no sense?

The government is promoting wounding or killing someone over scaring them off?

I'll bet there are certain instances where that law doesn't apply, like being robbed, now if you're arguing over a bill at a restaurant...flashing a gun should be illegal

[hammer]

Never display a handgun to gain "leverage" in an argument. Threatening someone verbally while possessing a handgun, even licensed, will land you in jail for three years. Even if the gun is broken or you don't have bullets, you will receive the mandatory three-year sentence if convicted. The law does not allow any possibility of getting out of jail early.

This does not say if you draw a gun you must use it. You are grossly misinterpreting the meaning. It is saying you can't display the gun for leverage in an argument or as a threat. Displaying the gun in self defense, and as a potential prelude to using it, is a different story. By your interpretation, if you draw the gun and the guy turns around and starts running, you are obligated, by law (again, in your interpretation) to shoot the guy in the back. Think about it.

Regards,

Hammer

[Chalenge]

Cavpfcdd:
Thats the whole point... well that and they dont want self-appointed policemen running around flashing guns.

A lot of laws dont make sense but this one I agree with because people will think before drawing the weapon out and it will save the taxpayers so much money when they do. As roundeye points out ('cajones') if they lose the initiative to fire they should not have drawn the gun in the first place because they are the most likely to have the gun taken from them and used against them and others around them.

If you own your own business and it is robbed you can defend it just like your own home without a requirement to retreat first and the same goes for your vehicle if it is 'invaded.' If you witness a crime you cannot act as a free-lance policeman but if you witness a life-threatening situation (imminent commission of a forcible felony) then you can use deadly force but deadly force must absolutely be required to prevent the crime.

If you pull a gun and act like 'Alex' did then you are a criminal just like the guy with the knife whether you won the escalation or not.

Hammer: You are never allowed to shoot at someone that is fleeing. Yes if you draw a gun and give the criminal time to realize he is screwed and needs to run then you are guilty of 'flashing the gun' and the courts will likely decide against you because the imminent commision of a forcible felony was not so imminent if the perpetrator has time to consider your gun. What you are suggesting isnt reality anyway. You dont pull a gun and say to the criminal 'hey hey see I have a gun so leave' because the imminent forcible felony then falls on you.

[hammer]

I would urge you to discuss this with whatever authority certifies you for concealed carry. I would also urge you to read the actual law as written. The original statement sounds like something printed in a pamphlet. What state are we talking about here, if I may ask?

I agree you don't draw and talk - that's not what I said. I am simply saying it is unlikely that a law is written making it obligatory to use a firearm if you display it.

Regards,

Hammer

[Chalenge]

I already have undergone the course for gun safety concealed carry and automatic weapons. The police officer made it very clear: you pull it you better use it. Do your thinking before you pull it and not after.

Florida. Our Commisioner is Charles Bronson

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

[AWwrgwy]

I already have undergone the course for gun safety concealed carry and automatic weapons. The police officer made it very clear: you pull it you better use it. Do your thinking before you pull it and not after.

Florida. Our Commisioner is Charles Bronson

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

Technically, he did use it.  He stopped a robbery.  A gun is a tool.  There is more than one way to use that tool.  Was the police officer very clear that if you pull your weapon you must fire it?



wrongway

[Murdr]

Yes if you draw a gun and give the criminal time to realize he is screwed and needs to run then you are guilty of 'flashing the gun' and the courts will likely decide against you because the imminent commision of a forcible felony was not so imminent if the perpetrator has time to consider your gun.

In the above scenario the mugger is already committing Aggravated Assault in the commition of a Robbery under Florida law simply with the threat of use of the knife.  It is lawful to exhibit and point a firearm at the assailant for self defense at that point.

776.08  Forcible felony.--"Forcible felony" means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

Improper exhibition of a firearm does not apply

790.10  Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.--If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

[bongaroo]

argument pwnage.   

[Chalenge]

Our court systems have already prosecuted and sentenced individuals that violated the rules as I outlined. The one undeniable fact of all this is that 'Alex' robbed the robber and if you shoot and kill the felon there will not be a felon suing you as a result of your pulling the gun.

This is how I conduct myself in carrying a gun. If I ever draw my gun there will be a felon DRT (dead right there) unless he shoots me first. I would hope other armed citizens would help to prevent that but it sounds like all I would see is a bunch of gun owners saying 'stop or I will shoot' which wont stop anything.

[CAVPFCDD]

sounds like all I would see is a bunch of gun owners saying 'stop or I will shoot' which wont stop anything.

yes it will, you have a gun!

[Murdr]

If you have to shoot someone then what changed so that you didnt fire?

What's changed in the mugging at knife point scenario is that you've produced a more effective weapon in self defense.  That in itself may be enough to stop the crime.  In many states at this point the onus is in the defender to still have a reasonable fear of serious bodily harm or death to himself or the thrid party they are trying to protect when they shoot.

Even on the link you posted...

If use of deadly force is not necessary, or you use deadly force after the crime has stopped, you could be convicted of manslaughter.

[Anodizer]

Blasters are so uncivilized..
That's why I use one of these....


It's really nice...  Tells me the time...  Has built-in XM radio...  The bottom of the hilt even twists off
to house a small survival kit(fishing line, hooks, matches, etc)

The last degenerate who attempted to rob me got sliced in half right down the middle...
No putting him back together!!  Heh heh heeeh......(evil laugh)

[Chalenge]

Right the argument does tend to stop once you shoot. I see what your saying murdr neither works in every situation though. You shouldnt have to draw the gun unless the guy needs to be killed to stop the crime. In the case of 'Alex' it would not be a gun pulling situation to me but Alex did break the law after the gun was drawn by robbing the robber and the other things he did for his macho demonstration. In that imaginative case the escalation is only going to be to the criminals advantage and 'Alex' by your way of thinking could not fire. I can see how in that same situation he had the necessity to fire.

Anodizer: childish but funny none the less

[Roundeye]

As roundeye points out ('cajones') if they lose the initiative to fire they should not have drawn the gun in the first place because they are the most likely to have the gun taken from them and used against them and others around them.

I meant cajones of the bad guy.   If a criminal threatens your life and you see no way to escape and your life is in danger, you have the right to defend yourself, even with deadly force.  So, you make that decision to protect yourself and shoot the attacker.  You pull your weapon..........here is where the "cajones" come to play:

1. If the attacker has unusually large cajones, he may continue the attack and have his soul separated from his body.

or

2. If that attacker realizes what is about to happen, his cajones will shrink (or disappear all together) and he will either flee or surrender.  If you plug him then it is NOT a justifiable shooting.  The right and legal thing to do at that point is hold him until the authorities arrive.  This would be a case when you decide to pull a gun and not use it.

[Chalenge]

Ah but you see if a guy is using a knife the first thing he does is get close enough to use it. A gun in your hand at that point is on even ground only if you can use it before the criminal knows you have it. He can then slash your hand or whatever or drop the knife and flee. Pulling the gun and killing the criminal doesnt give him the chance.

I can see a few of the responders in this thread should not carry a gun unless they can gather the will to use it or they will be victims AND be responsible for endangering lives. Thats the cajones I meant.