Do you like modern day air combat ?

[beau32]

I say not until we get

(can't believe that no one else got tp this yet)


HOT AIR BALLOONS

(Image removed from quote.)



Look my in game handle is in there

Thats funny!

[Rino]

     First of all, I fail to understand how you can consider Desert Storm era only modern air combat.
There were what, maybe 20-30 aircraft engaged?  Off boresite IR and active radar homing are very
recent developments.  Go ahead and limit yourselves, no skin off my nose.

     I don't claim to be an expert, but at least I worked on fire control radar back during the Stone Age
and have some knowledge of how they function.  Of course that doesn't stop the "experts" from their
usual drivel on virtually every topic discussed on these boards. 

[crazyivan]

     First of all, I fail to understand how you can consider Desert Storm era only modern air combat.
There were what, maybe 20-30 aircraft engaged?  Off boresite IR and active radar homing are very
recent developments.  Go ahead and limit yourselves, no skin off my nose.

     I don't claim to be an expert, but at least I worked on fire control radar back during the Stone Age
and have some knowledge of how they function.  Of course that doesn't stop the "experts" from their
usual drivel on virtually every topic discussed on these boards. 

Im sure those f-15 eagle pilots were well trained at what they do.  Poor fulcrums never saw it coming!

ps. would you ask those hornet boys to stop buzzin my house. My jeep is not a threat.

[toonces3]

Man, I am so glad that you guys filled me in that modern air combat is BVR only!  I thought I had just dreamed all these engagements I had!

Whew!

[715]

I don't understand what you're saying with those images?  Are you saying radar and IR guided missiles are dead weight and you have to get close and use your guns??  Why do those planes still have missiles onboard?  I'm confused.

[toonces3]

I'm saying that, to the contrary of those that feel that modern air combat is simply pushing a few buttons on your radar and shooting all the bad guys down BVR, within visual range fights (WVR) happen. 

For pure dogfighting only, sure WW2 is a really good time.  Aces High in particular because the disparity in flight models is so pronounced.

But, imo, from a full mission perspective, modern air combat is far more complex and fulfilling.  There is so much mental energy that you need to expend to fly a mission chocks to chocks in, say Falcon 4, compared to Aces High (or IL-2 or pick your own WW2 sim), that it's just silly.

I probably have a couple thousand hours of virtual flight time in Falcon 4, and I can assure you that it isn't simply "pickle your missiles at 50 miles and RTB".  The pictures are to illustrate that fact- just a snapshot of some of the engagement I've enjoyed in the last few months in an OPFOR mod for the Nevada theater.  The missiles are "still on the wings" because, believe it or not, there are actually parameters you have to get your jet into in order to shoot and hit another plane with a missile.  Shocking!   

 

[Lusche]

I do play Lock On occasionally, but generally it's way too much work to me. Being a lazy bum, I prefer gun birds without dar and a million keys to memorize

[moot]

I'm saying that, to the contrary of those that feel that modern air combat is simply pushing a few buttons on your radar and shooting all the bad guys down BVR, within visual range fights (WVR) happen. 

For pure dogfighting only, sure WW2 is a really good time.  Aces High in particular because the disparity in flight models is so pronounced.

But, imo, from a full mission perspective, modern air combat is far more complex and fulfilling.  There is so much mental energy that you need to expend to fly a mission chocks to chocks in, say Falcon 4, compared to Aces High (or IL-2 or pick your own WW2 sim), that it's just silly.

I probably have a couple thousand hours of virtual flight time in Falcon 4, and I can assure you that it isn't simply "pickle your missiles at 50 miles and RTB".  The pictures are to illustrate that fact- just a snapshot of some of the engagement I've enjoyed in the last few months in an OPFOR mod for the Nevada theater.  The missiles are "still on the wings" because, believe it or not, there are actually parameters you have to get your jet into in order to shoot and hit another plane with a missile.  Shocking!  

 

Doesnt change the fact that you're that much more removed from the plane's dogfighting performance because of computerization.

[Mace2004]

Doesnt change the fact that you're that much more removed from the plane's dogfighting performance because of computerization.

That's complete nonsense. ACM is still ACM and modern air combat is far removed from the point and click war people seem to believe.  An on-line air combat sim based on current capabilities would be very interesting but the problem would be the amount of training someone would need to play it.  You'd have to learn everything you learn for AH and then easily triple that with the additional training needed to employ radar, radar missiles, and IR missiles not to mention SAMs and advanced AAA, ECM, comms, radar intercepts, fwd qtr tactics, ROE, etc., etc.  Probably not practical without dumbing it down.

[moot]

Sorry but the computers just get in the way of it for me.  It's not that I don't like modern air combat.. I love it. If I find the time I'll finaly get around to really get into it, maybe this summer.. But radar, missiles, all that stuff detracts from ACM, for me.  I guess this is just a purist pet peeve, like say WWI's "purity" vs WWII's cop-out of mano-e-mano fights by simply opting out of a TnB fight against a SpitXVI while flying a 152.  So yes, you're that much more removed from a pure dogfight by all the contingencies.. That's not a dig, it's how I see it.  I don't want some long range AI drone (missiles or whatever) interrupting a strictly ACM and manual gunnery-decided dogfight.

[EskimoJoe]

"Oh look, Steve! We have a bogey on our radar! Let's fire a missile, shall we?"
"Sure"

*Sips from a cup, hits a few buttons*
*Pashaaaw*

"Oh, It looks like we got him. I hope we can make it back to base in time for lunch."


Doesn't seem AS exciting, but modern air combat is still pretty entertaining.

[Gianlupo]

That's complete nonsense. ACM is still ACM and modern air combat is far removed from the point and click war people seem to believe.  An on-line air combat sim based on current capabilities would be very interesting but the problem would be the amount of training someone would need to play it.  You'd have to learn everything you learn for AH and then easily triple that with the additional training needed to employ radar, radar missiles, and IR missiles not to mention SAMs and advanced AAA, ECM, comms, radar intercepts, fwd qtr tactics, ROE, etc., etc.  Probably not practical without dumbing it down.

Ditto. Complexity is what kept me from Falcon 4.

[iTunes]

I'm crap in a 262 so gods knows how bad i'd be in a modern fast jet

[Chalenge]

I believe reality is quite different from most assumptions given here. 'Our' modern fighters will most likely be engaged by overwhelming numbers which would limit 'BVR' engagements to a time/weapons ratio of use and then it would become a guns engagement thereafter. Every time in history that the dogfight has been announced to be a thing of the past reality comes back on the experts and proves them wrong.

[lunatic1]

yes i do