UPGRADE IN DIVE BOMBERS

[RODBUSTR]

    The only D/Bs offered are ok for early and Mid war, but with the passing of those, I think It's time for a selection of more  survivable planes.   I rarely see a Val or SBD especially without Crabby.  I think the jugs work the best, but maybe adding the Yokosuka D4Y3-c Suisei "Judy" and the Curtiss SB2c Helldiver  "Beast" or "Son Of a B%^&f 2nd Class ".  The performance figures on the Judy are Impressive for an IJN plane  358 to 388mph at 18,500 ft and the SB2 294 mph  at 16.500 ft.  More Judys were manufactured than Vals anyway, about 1500 Vals and over 2000 Judys,

[EagleDNY]

+1 Judy Judy Judy!   

[ONTOS]

+1 for the lovely Judy.

[Krusty]

The D4Y performed better than the D3A Val but it wasn't as well armored and that became an issue as the war progressed. Of the early in-line engine models, about 900 were built. They then re-engined it with a radial engine, and about 500 were built. The rests were kamikaze variants and IMO shouldn't be counted in a similar fashion as the "normal" versions. It would be a nice addition to the game.


However, Rodbustr, I must point out: There is a reason we don't have many dive bombers in this game, and why they are all early war dive bombers. That reason is that the concept of dive bombing with dive flaps was a pre-war notion and one that was essentially obsolete as the war began. Why have a slow, lumbering plane that put 2 or 3 lives on the line with little chance of survival to deliver a single bomb, when you can risk a single F6F or F4U pilot's life, carry 2, 3, or 4 times the bomb load (per plane!) and get there a fraction of the time. These fighter-bombers also could drop their bombs and defend themselves as needed. It was just a far far better way of waging war, and much more effective. Ju-87s were replaced by Fw190s. SBDs were replaced by Hellcats. That's the way the war progressed, for the most part.

That's why we only have so many -- there were only so many before they were replaced with better ways to drop bombs.

[Oldman731]

However, Rodbustr, I must point out: There is a reason we don't have many dive bombers in this game, and why they are all early war dive bombers. That reason is that the concept of dive bombing with dive flaps was a pre-war notion and one that was essentially obsolete as the war began.

Not to mention that the fighters of 1939-42 lacked the range and useful load capacities of the dive bombers of the time.  Once bigger motors and bigger fuel tanks were available, there was no need for the earlier planes.

Note that the AD Skyraiders still utilized dive flaps.

- oldman

[bustr]

Who knows, some day Waffle could crank out the protagonist aircraft from those early years for some slow MO FSO combat scenarios.

[oboe]

I have read the Helldiver was responsible for the destruction of more Japanese targets than any other aircraft, even though it didn't join the fleet until 1943.  It remained in active service until 1947 and with the Naval Reserve until 1950.



Gotta have "the Beast" someday!

[Krusty]

I wonder how much of that was due to Truk. The plane itself didn't present well in service. It was a dog a pig and worse. It was there because contracts were made and delivered, and there was a war on. F4Us and F6Fs did the job better by the time it ever showed up.

[EagleDNY]

Yes, you can certainly make a case for the Helldiver as well. 

[EagleDNY]

I wonder how much of that was due to Truk. The plane itself didn't present well in service. It was a dog a pig and worse. It was there because contracts were made and delivered, and there was a war on. F4Us and F6Fs did the job better by the time it ever showed up.

Also wonder how much of it was due to the upgrade in torpedo doctrine.  By the time the SB2c had been deployed they were equipping the Mk.13 torps with wood fairings that allowed for high speed drops at 800 ft altitude.  Might also have to take issue a bit with the idea that the F4Us and F6Fs did a "better job" bombing - certainly they could carry a decent bombload, but you have to actually HIT with the bomb to make it count.
I'm not sure many of the innovations on the SB2c would translate into AH3.  The radar systems wouldn't come over, and without the bombsite you wouldn't get the improved accuracy over bombing with an F4U/F6F.  Maybe that is what is really needed as the upgrade for dive bombers - enable the lead computing bombsite to make it worthwhile to take a slow pig off a carrier and get the bomb on target. 

[Oldman731]

It remained in active service until 1947 and with the Naval Reserve until 1950.

I'm pretty sure the French used some of them at Dien Bien Phu.

- oldman

[RODBUSTR]

 Mainly the slacking of dive bombing by U.S. was do to lack of targets.  But Sb2C and SBD-5 were used until the end of hostilities and many more dive bombers were used than Me 163  and Ta152s, and they are available.

[oboe]

My understanding is that a lot of the handling problems were fixed with the SB2C-3, which had a 1900hp engine and 4-bladed prop.

Oldman is right - the French used the Helldiver in Indochina, and it stayed in French service until 1958.   Greece also used the Beast until the early 1950s.

And it's introduction wasn't until November 1943, so the Navy must've kept it very busy in the 21 months that it saw combat.  Really sortof an unsung hero - for what it did and how little its known, except for all its bad points.  More than 7,000 of these monsters were produced during WWII, and it could carry up tp 3,000 lbs of bombs, or 2,000 lbs and 8 rockets, or a torpedo.  And it had 2x20mm cannon for strafing.  Pretty versatile naval attack aircraft!