F6F-5N

[Saxman]

For example, engine heat needs to be watched or you will be up the creek.

Well, you lost me there. Engine overheat is probably one of the most annoyingly overdone "features" I've ever see in a combat sim. It's one of the worst aspects of Il-2's flight model.

[Baumer]

According to the F6F Pilots Instructions, and the F6F Service Manual I have, the 2 20mm guns replaced the two inboard .50's.

For a total of 2 -20mm's and 4 -.50's



According to Tillman, in "Hellcat", the primary reason the 20's were not used in combat was due to a lack of flash suppressors. When the squadrons could get them (the flash suppressors) they would reinstall the 20's and have good success with them.

[aenigma]

Well, you lost me there. Engine overheat is probably one of the most annoyingly overdone "features" I've ever see in a combat sim. It's one of the worst aspects of Il-2's flight model.

Sorry Sax. In Targetware, you need to watch engine overheat as if I remember right (it has been a while since I flown in there) the engine shuts off or something critical. That engine over heat is just one of many things you have to keep an eye on in the game. It is just one small element of the game and I used it as an example to show if someone wanted more realism he could get it in that game. Just like in the WW1 Mod in TW, engine torque really affects your plane and since a lot of Flight Sims rarely put engine torque into play, I was thrown off when I first flew WW1 mod thinking it was my stick going out of calibration. Few long term TW gamers told me it was the engine torque.

[Saxman]

It is just one small element of the game and I used it as an example to show if someone wanted more realism he could get it in that game.

The problem is it's NOT realistic. It's an artificially-imposed handicap to prevent players from running full power all the time. These engines wouldn't just shut off or blow out the way they do in games like that and Il-2. Hell, they test ran R-2800s and I think Merlins for a good couple-hundred HOURS straight at maximum power without it blowing up or seizing. The power limitations in the operating procedures and regulations were in place purely for maintenance taking extra time to check it out before returning it to the line, not because your engine would blow up if you redlined the throttle for a couple hours.

There's been plenty of other threads about this.

[Ack-Ack]

The N would have much reduced performance due to the attached radar. HTC has never modeled airborne radar and we have a sort of radar already - in all planes. This would be an F6F with crap performance, that carries no ord, but better at the HO. I can think of a few better ways to waste development time.

The radar that was used on the F6F-5N really didn't have a significiant negative impact on the maneuverability though there was a reduction in speed of about 30mph and it was also able to carry ordnance as it was also used in both night and day time interdiction roles.  

In short, it wouldn't be a F6F-5 with crap performance.


ack-ack

[Thor84]

performance wouldnt be hindered to any real extent. if they give the current hellcat its speed back to where its supposed to be. the new hellcat with radar would fly exactly like our current hellcat. and as a few others have pointed out. the N did carry ords and was very successful. wtf is a shade?

[Ack-Ack]

What you don't seem to grasp is that the -5N would render the existing Hellcat a hanger queen. 


ack-ack

[Thor84]

as far as the the current hellcat being useless if there was another version......  simple solution... make the new version only be able to carry 250lbs bombs or something of that nature. keep it accurate to the real thing. but give all of us a reason to use the other version. make the new version a perk plane. theres more than enuf ways for it to be a fair aircraft. this is not a topic ill ever give up on.......... 

[Thor84]

the current hellcat would have slightly better speed and roll rate. 

[humble]

What you don't seem to grasp is that the -5N would render the existing Hellcat a hanger queen. 


ack-ack

I dont agree with that at all, thats like saying the D pony made the B a hanger queen (one of many examples). Every single N & P rolled of the factory configured with 2 x 20mm. Every single F6F-5 built was configured to accept the 20mm option. An F6F configured with 2 x 20mm wouldnt even rate as a perk ride (wouldnt have problem with it as a perk option however). I dont think it would crack the top 10 rides even with the 20mm option.

[Thor84]

good point humble. never thought of that but non the less an excelant point. hell, an eny difference would render a solution. out of all of this theres no real reason it shouldnt be in the game.

[Saxman]

I think the impact of having that big hulkin' dome out on one wing is being somewhat underestimated. There's nothing acting as a counterweight on the other side, so in a way its going to be like flying a P-38 with one engine powered down because the engine is going to be slightly off the center of mass. It may not be significant, but will definitely require more rudder input to keep her straight. Roll rate is almost sure to be affected. And 30mph is a SIGNIFICANT impact on top speed, especially if you consider the calibrated top speed is only off by ~10-15mph.

I don't think the 20mm cannon is going to quite relegate the -5 to the hangar.

And Thor, intentionally crippling one plane's performance to encourage use of another is a very poor approach.

[Thor84]

its not crippling any plane.......   the current hellcat is already slower than it should be and your wrong about the counter weight. the metal of the day was lead. and the weight was kept even. and if you ever noticed the natural p-factor pulls the right wing forward and drag would just be balanced by that on takeoff and landing. do you really think that this wasnt thought of and encountered when the plane was built?

[Motherland]

I dont think it would crack the top 10 rides even with the 20mm option.

I'd have to look for Lusche's charts again, I can't seem to find them, but I'm pretty sure that the F6F in it's current configuration already eclipsed the La7 in usage a little while back.

Edit; whoops, F6F is #5 in total usage, just behind the La7 and just in front of the F4U1D.

[Saxman]

its not crippling any plane.......   

What do you call the suggestion of artificially restricting the 5N's bomb load to encourage useage of the -5?