New build new player

[sigfla]

Well my new build has been running AH for the last 4 days now. I have had alot of fun reliving my old AW3 days on AH. Some observations about Vista Premium/XP Home/ATI/and NVIDIA:
(from memory since I am at work)
1. My original ATI 4870 X2 card would not work at all with AH or XP. It caused crash after crash in AH Vista and would not allow boot up in XP. I originally chalked it up to a bad card but upon further research I found the ATI cards have had some sort of .dll error causing system crashes for the last year or so. I replaced with a NVIDIA 295 model and viola all problems solved. The ATI problem seems to stem from the Catalyst control panel b/c I was able to get XP to boot up only when the catalyst control center was not installed. However without the full features of the card available I decided a replacement was the only viable option. Lastly, the ATI drivers for both Vista and XP would only work if they were the ones from mid last year. The most current driver build would not allow either XP or Vista to boot up at all.
2. I am currently running a swappable Vista/XP dual drive system. When I want XP I pull the Vista drive out and load the XP tray. WHen I want Vista I do the opposite. My 3dMark scores for both OS's are running around 23K without any tweaks and I am not going to mess with them any further. My FPS in XP is well over 250+. My FPS in Vista is stable at 59 and does not change ever. I can't notice any difference in game play with either OS but I am running the game in XP now mostly.
3. If I had to do it over I would go with the NVIDIA card 1st, which is no big deal but I do love ATI products having had several trouble free ones in the past. Too bad my 4870 just didn't want to work.
4. The swappable boot system is a joy to use and it gives me the best of both worlds for almost no cost. Setup of my Cougar took some time but I now have no issues and I swap OS's without any trouble. XP and Vista both recognize my Cougar at startup and the whole system works without a hitch.
5. The TM cougar is an awesome stick but programing it with FOXY takes some time and thought. The user profiles available to DL are a nice shortcut but I would not call this a plug and play system if you intend to program it outside of a game at all. Also the stick spring tension is hard. The TM needs to be as heavy as it is or else you would be pushing it off the table during heavy use. I would prefer a slightly lighter tension just so the stick doesn't slide off my desk when I am yanking it around. I may use some vacuum cups on the bottom to hold it in place. If your TM doesn't have any grease I would also recommend a product I use on my guns called slide glide. It is perfect for this. 
6. I am using the CH pro pedals and they are taking some getting used to. In the past I flew with a twist rudder. The CH pedals are twitchy for my taste and they slide around on my carpet during use. I will have to fix that somehow. 
 

[Skuzzy]

ATI Tray Tools by Ray Adams is better than the ATI Catalyst Control Center.  Just FYI.  I have never installed the CCC and never will.

[Delirium]

The CH pedals are twitchy for my taste and they slide around on my carpet during use. I will have to fix that somehow.   

Get the anti-slide cushions you see in stores, often used at the bottom of kitchen cabinets and comes in a roll. Cut a big enough piece, slide it under your pedals and you should not have any further problems.

You could also 'box' the pedals by getting some 2x4s, but the anti-slide/rubber rolls is the easier and cheaper way to go.

[BaldEagl]

Get the anti-slide cushions you see in stores, often used at the bottom of kitchen cabinets and comes in a roll. Cut a big enough piece, slide it under your pedals and you should not have any further problems.

You could also 'box' the pedals by getting some 2x4s, but the anti-slide/rubber rolls is the easier and cheaper way to go.

When I was racing a lot my pedals wanted to slide forward.  I stuck a phone book between them and the wall.  Problem solved.

[The Fugitive]

Get the anti-slide cushions you see in stores, often used at the bottom of kitchen cabinets and comes in a roll. Cut a big enough piece, slide it under your pedals and you should not have any further problems.

You could also 'box' the pedals by getting some 2x4s, but the anti-slide/rubber rolls is the easier and cheaper way to go.

the "hook" side of some velcro work very well too on a carpet.

[sigfla]

All good suggestions. I like the velcro idea best for my current application.

[Getback]

Can you delete the ATI CCC with out issue?

[Skuzzy]

I believe ATI provides a de-installer for the CCC separate from the drivers. 

[drdeathx]

There is an ATI uninstall in your control panel. Make sure you have the latest drivers. That may be a culprit too. You need to run a driver cleaner to clean the registry files. The uninstall should uninstall CCC.


I had a ATI 4870 x 2 (2g) card and brought it back. Like you mentioned ATI was having troubles all over the board. I didn't have any problems with AH. The funny thing 3DMARK06 showed both GPU's working but my benchmarks were low and another source showed only 1 GPU working. After spending evenings looking at the misc. farts that ATI was having upon the release with the 4870 x 2 had, I decided to eexc for an NVidea GTX280. All went perfect but my benchmarks see to be lower than they should. I benched 3DMARK06 at 15,500 with 2 3870 (512) cards crossfired and I barely get 14,500 with the GTX280(1G).???

[ntrudr]

As for item 1,, you most likely did not read the directions when installing the ATI drivers.  You have to install "Microsoft dot net" first, and your XP-Catalyst problem would not have appeared.

[sigfla]

It wouldn't have ultimately made any difference b/c the problem existed in Vista as well. Any driver past version 8.?? from mid last year caused system crashes in both Vista and XP. When I was able to find a stable driver load it had a very negative affect on AH. I saw artifacts and pixelation all over the screen in the game. So far the NVIDIA has worked perfectly and I have no complaints at all. I would have preferred the ATI to work but it just didn't. The only negative with the NVIDIA was its size as it didn't fit well into my P6 MB PCIe slot #1. I was able to jam it in there but the clearance was not great so I moved it down to slot #2. The ATI had a bit more room at the end of the card for clearance away from the MB so it fit better but they both worked in that location. I could have left the NVIDIA in slot #1 but I wasn't 100% on its insertion into the slots.

ATI has been having problem after problem with these boards. Their web forum is littered with system crash problems and .dll loop errors caused by the drivers and the CCC. So far it appears they have been scrambling to stabilize the drivers with a new release almost each month, that to me is evidence of a problem. Once they get it worked out I am sure they will have a great product in that board. Till then I don't think I did a disservice to myself trading out for the NVIDIA 295 in my system configuration.

[Skuzzy]

ATI's Vista drivers have been far better than NVidia's in a number of ways.  NVidia is still struggling to make the drivers for the 9800GTX stable under Vista.  It took them three updates to fix the DirectShow problems as well.

That aside, the CCC can cause most of the problems with the ATI drivers.  Not installing it will result in a far more stable experience.

Another problem for the 4870X2 cards is people using poor quality power supplies and stuffung them into cases with poor ventilation (45 fans in a case does not gaurantee good ventilation).  It is sensitive to noise.  Maybe more so than other cards.  A more costly 16 or 20 layer PCB might have helped solve that.

Overall, at this very moment, both NVidia and ATI are pretty much equal in driver stability.  Both companies have problems with the latest release of drivers.  With NVidia or ATI you have to be careful about what version of the drivers you use with the product.  A 6000 or 7000 series NVidia product does not run well under any 1xx.xx driver, as an example.  ATI's 9000 series products run best under the very old Catalyst 4.12 drivers.

Do not take noise levels at a fan site as a solid indicator of any problems with any hardware or software.  I can point to other fan sites who are ready to hang the engineers at NVidia.  Fan sites lack objectivity and every little issue is the end of the world.  It is the nature of the beast.

I have a Sapphire Toxic 4870X2 at home and it has been rock solid stable.

[drdeathx]

Skuzzy, I am not so sure about that. I read a lot of forums(literally hundreds) and it looks like Nvidea has less problems than ATI but I may be wrong. 6 months ago it wasn't funny on ATI's forums. They had at least 10-20 posts a day on various issues with the 4000 series.


Ntrudr the program needed is netframework if I remember correctly.

[sigfla]

After some research today I found some folks at the vga forum say the problem lies in the Asus MB ATI GPU mix. My MB is an Asus so that might have been the problem. In any case I have not found too much trouble posted inline about the NVIDIA 295. ATI  is up to CCC 9.1 I think and I had to roll back to 8.1? before I found a stable load in Vista. I doubt my problem was related to anything other than the MB b/c of my case and PSU configuration. It is good to have a stable system running AH and all else now so I will chalk it up to a single bad experience with an otherwise good board.
ymmv

[drdeathx]

After some research today I found some folks at the vga forum say the problem lies in the Asus MB ATI GPU mix. My MB is an Asus so that might have been the problem. In any case I have not found too much trouble posted inline about the NVIDIA 295. ATI  is up to CCC 9.1 I think and I had to roll back to 8.1? before I found a stable load in Vista. I doubt my problem was related to anything other than the MB b/c of my case and PSU configuration. It is good to have a stable system running AH and all else now so I will chalk it up to a single bad experience with an otherwise good board.
ymmv

Ran my ATI's with Asus... No problems. As in my above response the ATI 4870x2 was ok but I didn't feel my benchmarks should be where they should be. In the end they probably were ok as to my system.