F6F Experts

[whiteman]

Just wondering if Tri-Color planes flew late into the war? All the pics I've seen of late war F6F's are the solid blue, but I was looking at this photo and looks like 41 is a tri-color. I'd say my eyes are tricking but that plane is clear as day white on bottom. Did they have two-tone or is this a Tri-Color.

[Saxman]

It's definitely tri-color. You can just make out the demarkation line on the cowling, so the non-specular sea blue is probably rather faded.

[whiteman]

shifty pointed out it looks like -3, no pylons and canopy is different from the others.

[Bosco123]

Looks like a late war, maybe 3 colors, but I think it may only be 2. Easily distinguished is the prop hub is a brighter color than the others. But looking at the picture of the three planes in it, I would say that it's either a 1 or 2 color. That color that your seeing on the top maybe oil streak, thats were the exhaust comes out and on the bottom as well.

[Saxman]

Looks like a late war, maybe 3 colors, but I think it may only be 2. Easily distinguished is the prop hub is a brighter color than the others. But looking at the picture of the three planes in it, I would say that it's either a 1 or 2 color. That color that your seeing on the top maybe oil streak, thats were the exhaust comes out and on the bottom as well.

Disagree. If you look, you can see the darker upper shade extending back much further along the fuselage. More telling than that is that you can see it on the COWLING. If it was exhaust staining it woul be beginning AFT of the cowl flaps.

It's definitely tricolor, albeit as I suggested we're probably seeing a well-faded non-specular sea blue. If this is an F6F-3 still serving into 1944/45 when they changed to overall semi-gloss sea blue that wouldn't be surprising.

AFAIK the only two-color scheme the Navy and Marines used during the war was blue-gray over light-gray.

[pipz]

I got a book around here with the same picture.Its Tri-Color and if I recall correctly from the book it was one of the last -3 f6fs of that unit.If ya want ill go look and see if I can find it.There was a cross over period where the tri color was phased out and the Glossy sea blue was phased in so I imagine there would be an overlap in paint jobs.


Pipz

[Shifty]

It's definitely tri-color. You can just make out the demarkation line on the cowling, so the non-specular sea blue is probably rather faded.

As Tex pointed out we both noticed the -3 Windscreen framing about the same time. You can easily see the difference looking comparing #41's windscreen to #22.

Sax I belive you're correct it is a tri color you can also see the demarkation line of two different blues just forward of the tail on the 41 bird.

<S>

[Ack-Ack]

I've seen photos of Hellcats with the NS blue-gray/NS light gray camouflage scheme and I do recall seeing a picture of Flatley's "White 00" with a tri-color scheme but I think that was a -3 variant and not sure if he flew "White 00" with that scheme beyong '43.

Here's a picture of another -3 variant with the tri-color scheme but I don't know what year this was taken but looks like it may be a restored Hellcat




ack-ack

[Shifty]

Looks like a restored F6F-5 to me Ack Ack. If it was a war time photo it would have been taken in the summer of 1943
because of the national markings being trimmed in red. That would mean it would be a F6F-3. The F6F-3 has the window behind the pilot's shoulder.
This one looks to be a F6F-5 which would not have worn the red trimmed national markings nor the tri color scheme.

[Twincam]

I have shown this photo to a 91 year old Grumman test pilot who lives here in Seattle,He also flew them in WW2  and he says that is a F6F-3 tri-color.He took one look at the photo  and knew what it was.

[pipz]

The F6F-3 has the window behind the pilot's shoulder.

Some of the early build F6F-5's had the window as well.


Pipz

[1pLUs44]

shifty pointed out it looks like -3, no pylons and canopy is different from the others.

I can bet that guy is ticked to be the only one in the Squadron with the outdated F6F

[pipz]

Whiteman my Squadron book Hellcat Aces of WW2 page 65 says its a f6f-3 of VF-17.It says White 41 was one of a handful of late build F6F-3 that served into the Okinawa campaign and probably one of the last in task force 58.

Pipz

[Shifty]

Pipz I dug out my hellcat Aces of WWII and My squadron Signal F6F Hellcat in Action. I cannot find anything on late model F6F-3s having the rear window removed.
I found a site claiming the the later models F6F-5s had the rear window removed.

[3] F6F-5 HELLCAT IN SERVICE / XF6F-6 / POSTWAR SERVICE

* The second (and last) major production variant of the Hellcat was the "F6F-5", which performed its first flight on 4 April 1944 and entered production at the end of the month. The F6F-5 was an incremental improvement on the F6F-3, standardizing improvements introduced during F6F-3 production and adding a few new ones. The two variants were difficult to tell apart. The F6F-5 featured:


The R-2800-10W engine, as fitted to late-production F6F-3s.

Minor airframe changes, including a redesigned engine cowling with improved streamlining, a stronger tail assembly, and new ailerons. The Hellcat's ailerons control was regarded as heavy and tiring, partly because the machine was so stable laterally, and it was one problem with the machine that Grumman never quite managed to fix. The F6F-5 also featured a simplified canopy with the flat windshield, the original curved windshield haven proven to have no real aerodynamic advantage. Late production F6F-5s would delete the canopy rear window panels.

A stores pylon under the fuselage and one under the wing, for a total of three, each able to carry a 450 kilogram (1,000 pound) bomb. The Hellcat would also be evaluated as a torpedo-bomber, but this scheme would not go into service, though the big "Tiny Tim" unguided rocket was used in combat by Hellcats.

Three stub pylons under each wing, for a total of six, each able to carry a single 12.7 centimeter (5 inch) "high velocity air rocket (HVAR)".
The weapons pylons were also fitted to some late-production F6F-3s. Some late-production F6F-5s had gun armament of four 12.7 millimeter Browning machine guns and two 20 millimeter Hispano Mark II cannon, with the long-barreled cannon mounted in the inboard position and supplied with 200 rounds of ammunition each.

I guess it depends where you get your info. I do know you can't base versions on paint schemes.

Below is an FG-1D Corsair. A Goodyear built F4U-1D basically. It's part of the collection at the Cavanaugh Flight Museum in Addison TX.
I took this photo last October. As you can see it has the tri color paint scheme. This aircraft was built in 1945 so it should be all blue.
Notice anything else? Check out the guns...




I posted picture back in October asking if and Goodyear made Corsairs had 20MM Cannon. The answer is no but Guppy35 explained to me it's probably a case of C model wings being installed on this FG-1D for looks more than anything.. As well as the paint scheme. By the way the bird is painted in VF-17 colors.  In 1945 when this bird was built VF-17 was flying the F6F. So you can't go by paint jobs or even armament it seems when identifying restored warbirds.

Here's a link with a writeup about the Corsair above.

http://www.cavanaughflightmuseum.com/graphics/Corsair2.jpg

Twincam what is the name of the Grumman Test Pilot you mentioned?  Thats a guy I'd love to spend a few hours with. 

[pipz]

Pipz I dug out my hellcat Aces of WWII and My squadron Signal F6F Hellcat in Action. I cannot find anything on late model F6F-3s having the rear window removed.
I found a site claiming the the later models F6F-5s had the rear window removed.

Hello Shifty

I think we have a misunderstanding.You stated the F6F-3 had the rear window.I mentioned that some of the early production F6F-5 had them as well.Somewhere along the line they deleted the rear window during the F6F-5 production run.I mentioned it for conversation sake just to clarify that you cant distinguish between the -3 and -5 by the rear window only since some of the -5 had the window.

Sometimes I type stuff and I am not as clear as I thought.Or on the other hand sometimes I miss read things.Let me know if that clears up what I was trying to say.

I edited this in.......
As for the FG-1 having the cannon armed wings.One possible explanation is that when they were restoring the plane the original wings may have been damaged beyond repair.They may have used the wings of maybe even a later model Corsair because thats what was available.Restorations sometimes use parts from different variants simply because thats what they can get theyre hands on.Thats just one more posibility I thought I would throw in there.

Nice picture BTW thanks for posting them.Looks like that was an interesting trip!

Cya up and about!
Pipz