What does it take to perk?

[Allen Rune]

Anything that if free would unbalance the game.
How fun would an arena full of 262s be?

The answer has been staring at you since second reply...

The spixteen isn't perked because it's not unbalancing gameplay, the reason being it's mostly only noobs that fly it. The Ta-152 wasn't unbalancing gameplay because there is only one m00t buzzing around in it, and we have yet to descover the secret of cloning...
 

[Anaxogoras]

Uhm.. mediocre top speed (ranked #26 with WEP on the deck)? Fragile wings?

When compared statistically to the rest of the plane-set, the Spitfire XVI still gets a positive score for top speed on the deck, which at 344mph is only in the "good" category.

Once you get to 10k ft, the Spitfire XVI compares even better to the rest of the plane-set for level top speed.

For level speed, the Spitfire XVI's Zscore is

sea level: .37
10k ft: .64

In many other performance categories the SpitfireXVI's zscores are even higher.

[Bronk]

When compared statistically to the rest of the plane-set, the Spitfire XVI still gets a positive score for top speed on the deck, which at 344mph is only in the "good" category.

Yea... I always burn my wep for speed not clawing for more alt.

[Kazaa]

Both the Spitfire Mk16 and La7 require a light perk because they are both uber.

[Anaxogoras]

Both the Spitfire Mk16 and La7 require a light perk because they are both uber.

Nope, not the La-7.  The cannon ballistics are poor and its performance drops off a cliff above 5k ft.  Its very short range and tiny ordinance capacity also help to nudge it into the no-perk zone.

Oh wait, was that a troll?

[Lusche]

When compared statistically to the rest of the plane-set, the Spitfire XVI still gets a positive score for top speed on the deck, which at 344mph is only in the "good" category.

Once you get to 10k ft, the Spitfire XVI compares even better to the rest of the plane-set for level top speed.

For level speed, the Spitfire XVI's Zscore is

sea level: .37
10k ft: .64

In many other performance categories the SpitfireXVI's zscores are even higher.

I don't know about Zscore... but these planes are faster on the deck:
Me 262
Tempest V
La-7
F4U-4
Fw 190D-9
Typhoon
Bf 109K4
P-51D
P-47N
F4U-1A
Ta 152H
Spitfire Mkx14 XIV
F4U-1
P-51B
La-5FN
F4U-1D
F4U-1C
Yak-9U
Bf 109G-14
Fw 190A-8
Fw 190F-8
P-47D-11
P-38L
P3-38J
P-47D-40


And now that you mentioned the short range of the La-7... the Spit XVI has a short range too.

[BnZs]

I think anything that is double-superior (as fast or faster at typical MA alts and more maneuverable) to a great many contemporaries should be perked. Contemporaries meaning for instance, other Late-War(LW) planes in LW arena, not the entire set, Mid-War planes should not be compared to LW planes for these purposes.

For instance Anax, you have the issue exactly backwards about the La7 and Spit16. The Lala's speed by itself of course, is not the deciding factor, it is the fact that it is both faster and more maneuverable at typical MA alts than a great many LW fighters...ballistics, range, etc, are side issues compared to the primary considerations for fighters, energy performance and angles performance

By way of comparison, the D9 is nearly as fast as the La7 at low levels, rolls better, has better range and arguably a better gun package, BUT, because this speed comes at the price of being very nearly the least maneuverable fighter in the game, every other class of fighter in AHII has legitimate strategy (angles fighting) to use against the D9 and thus can't complain about its non-perked status. In another example, the 109K4 would be an excellent candidate for perkage IF it were faster at a little lower level, not dive limited, turned a little better, and had an easier gun package, but together these things make a reasonable case for leaving it free.

 From where I stand, unperked La7s make less sense than unperked Tempests; Both are faster than everything else at low levels, but the latter is certainly the poorer dogfighter, easier to kill or put to flight, so what gives?

The Spit16 though is a borderline case, it is definitely awesome in all aspects outside of top-speed, but most LW planes that are not competitive with the Spit16 in a Co-E dogfight can avoid engaging the Spit16 if they keep their speed and SA up.

[Lusche]

From where I stand, unperked La7s make less sense than unperked Tempests; Both are faster than everything else at low levels, but the latter is certainly the poorer dogfighter, easier to kill or put to flight, so what gives?

The Tempest has an impressive combination of speed, range (when compared to the LA), and 4*20mm Hispano while it's not that bad in turning as many players might think.
There's a reason the Tempest has constantly the highest K/D of all planes in AH: It can go there, kill, and go away.


Yes in a duel-like 1vs1 against the LA, the Tempest is running into trouble, but the MA is no DA

[oakranger]

thing is though if the vehicles get perked that people complain about (spit16, la7 and WW mostly) then all they will do is move to the next vehicle saying its to ubber.

whiner - perk the spit 16 its ubber - skuzzy - ok its perked
whiner - perk the spit  9 its ubber - skuzzy - ok its perked
whiner - perk the spit  8 its ubber - skuzzy - ok its perked
whiner - perk the spit  5 its ubber - skuzzy - ok its perked
whiner - perk the spit  1 its ubber - skuzzy - ok its perked
whiner - perk the hmmm. damn nothing left to perk - skuzzy - well you whinged about every thing now live with it!!!!!!!!!

whiner - skuzzy can we have the sopworth camel please??? pretty please. promise we wont wine that its to ubber if you do.

 , that funny

[oakranger]

Both the Spitfire Mk16 and La7 require a light perk because they are both uber.

Not La-7.  I can dog fight a La-7 while in a 190.

[BnZs]

Yes in a duel-like 1vs1 against the LA, the Tempest is running into trouble, but the MA is no DA

A fleeing plane is no threat. You say the pertinent fact yourself in the quote...If you see the Tempest coming while flying most any plane, you have more options against it than against the LaLa, and if you don't see it coming in time or are fighting a group, it little matters whether your get picked by 4xHispanos or 3xB-20s.

By the same logic, I actually think the perk price on the 262 ought to be lowered some. Yes it is death to buffs, near uncatchable, and has four barrels of death for anything that doesn't see it coming, thus it needs to remain on the top of the heap price-wise. But otherwise, it is a difficult plane to actually fight in and moreover it faces the constant threat of suicidal ho-ram everytime it goes near another ride because its perk price is so high.

[Lusche]

A fleeing plane is no threat.

It's not that simple.
There's a difference between fleeing (=going home) and disengaging. I can disengage from the plane that's a threat to me and go jump another.

The Tempest can get seperation, then swing in again with blazing Hispanos, whiche have much better long range firepower. Unlike the La-7, it carries a lot of fuel to make it a constant threat in an area for quite some time. Almost no plane can run it down with a co-e, and it's still maneuverable enough to give most fighters a very hard time in a dogfight without having to extend for 3k.

It's a FAR more dangerous enemy in MA terms than a LA-7

[Anaxogoras]

I don't know about Zscore... but these planes are faster on the deck:

Zscore is when you subtract the average stat for all planes from the plane in question, and divide by the standard deviation.  So the Spitfire XVI Zscore for speed is (344mph - average speed for all prop aircraft)/standard deviation.

Leave the 262 out of this.  Including it only serves to make your list look bigger.  I'm not sure why you listed the P-47D-40.  It is not faster than the SpitXVI at sea level, and the P-38J/L are 1mph faster at sea level; the 47D-11 is 2mph faster.

[thrila]

Are you advocating unperking the tempest, bnzs?  just checking.

[Lusche]

Zscore is when you subtract the average stat for all planes from the plane in question, and divide by the standard deviation.  So the Spitfire XVI Zscore for speed is (344mph - average speed for all prop aircraft)/standard deviation.

Leave the 262 out of this.  Including it only serves to make your list look bigger.  I'm not sure why you listed the P-47D-40.  It is not faster than the SpitXVI at sea level, and the P-38J/L are 1mph faster at sea level; the 47D-11 is 2mph faster.

Actually, there was a point reagrding to Zscore. Speed is an absolute asset. Sometimes you can compute just too much

And the list is just that, a list. I didn't include anything just "to made it look bad", it's my list of aircraft speeds. And the point is - it was my answer on the claim: "the Spit XVI has no weakness". The fact that the 38 is only 2mph faster doesn't change anything. It still stands that the XVI has rather mediocre top speed.