Eny

[grizz441]

I got into a discussion with some squaddies the other day about Eny and how it should work.  None of them agreed with me which is fine but I'm curious to get some others take on it.  For those who don't know, Eny is set up based on the aircraft's theoretical potential.
How it's set up:
Eny 5:
All Perked Aircraft, Spit16, Ta152, P47N, N1k2, La7
Eny 8:
P51D
Eny 10:
Typhoon, Spit8, HurriC, Bf110G
Eny 15:
F4U1A, F4UD, F6F5, Fw190D9,Ki84, Seafire
Eny 20:
109K4, 109G14, C205, F4F, FM2, 190F8, La5, P38J, P38L, P39Q, P47D40, P51B, Spit9, YakU
Etc...

Now, I've bolded the planes that I feel should have a lower eny number and Redded the planes that I feel should have a higher eny number.  Obviously this is open to discussion.

Anyways, the question I wanted to pose is, do you think an aircraft's eny should be based on its Potential or its Popularity?
I should also note that Potential is a subjective stat that HTC defines.

I'll just give one example from this list as to why I think eny should be defined by Popularity and not Potential.  The Fw190D9 is an eny 15 plane so it is typically always available unless there is a ridiculous imbalance.  It is also one of LW's most popular planes.  It's not hard to understand why.  Tons of 20mm cannon ammo and one of the fastest planes.  Now, the reason it is an eny 15 plane is probably based on the fact that it can't turn worth a darn when it gets slow.  It's lack of turn capability is a moot point though.  The vast majority of the 190D9 pilots only use it for B&Z so why does it matter if it can't turn.  They don't even try to turn it.  The dynamic of the MA is to cut and run and this is the perfect plane for that 'avoid the fight' mentality.

It seems to me plane popularity is based primarily on Speed and Gun Lethality for the vast majority of the players in the MA.  Take your cherry picks and get out of dodge.  Since no one is using their planes to their Potential, why is Eny based on this?  I'm sure Lusche has stats for the most popular planes in the LW handy somewhere which would also be nice to see.

So what do you think, Should Eny be based on Performance or Popularity?


P.S.
All perks should be Eny5.  Obviously the 262 won't have a high popularity due to it's cost.

[Motherland]

I'm pretty happy with ENY values. That said, I don't fly anything other than German aircraft.
There are only two aircraft I that I don't really like their ENY value- the 109K and the 110G.
The 109K IMO should be around 10 and the 110G should be like 25.


I do understand why the 110G is 10 ENY- because of its horde aircraft. But it's kind of unrepresentative of it's aerial potential.

My point is, I wish aircraft were limited by OBJ as well as ENY- (this of course would require OBJ values to be adjusted) so that the hording side would not only be locked out of La7's and Spixteens but B24's and Lancasters, and aircraft would have more representative perk bonuses in their major roles.












Plus, the whines would be awesome.

[Anaxogoras]

For me it doesn't matter too much whether it's based on performance or popularity, but there should be some kind of yardstick that's external from HTC's opinion by which to judge ENY....then I would be happy.

The only reason these ENY disputes occur is because there is no external standard, and hence no justification.

[moot]

The effective potential of the aircraft depends on the pilots.  Picture 10 years of AH where one plane had great potential that was extremely difficult to exploit.  You ENY it at 5.  In those ten years, only a handful out of 10,000 players fly the plane near its full potential.  In any given TOD, you encounter one of those players flying that plane about once or twice, 1998 other times it's flown like a school bus so that it's k/d is 0.0001 or something.  In effect, the plane is not dangerous, not worth ENY 5 but prolly more like 10. But not 30 either, unless some auto-ENY-adjustment system is set up to track any surge in proper exploitation of that plane which would then be unbalancing.

So it's a matter of balancing the two, popularity and potential.  IMO potential is largely the bigger factor.

[Anaxogoras]

The effective potential of the aircraft depends on the pilots.  Picture 10 years of AH where one plane had great potential that was extremely difficult to exploit.  You ENY it at 5.  In those ten years, only a handful out of 10,000 players fly the plane near its full potential.  In any given TOD, you encounter one of those players flying that plane about once or twice, 1998 other times it's flown like a school bus so that it's k/d is 0.0001 or something.  In effect, the plane is not worth ENY 5, prolly more like 10. But not 30 either, unless some auto-ENY-adjustment system is set up to track any surge in proper exploitation of that plane which would then be unbalancing.

This is true, but you don't want to overlook the fact that some aircraft have potential that's easier to exploit than others.  In a way that's what ENY should represent.

[grizz441]

This is true, but you don't want to overlook the fact that some aircraft have potential that's easier to exploit than others.  In a way that's what ENY should represent.

Even now I dont think that 'potential' is set up properly.  For example, the 30 eny Bf109G6.

So it's a matter of balancing the two, popularity and potential.  IMO potential is largely the bigger factor.

I agree with this if the LW mentality wasn't B&Z, cut and run for 95% of the pilots.  If it was more about combat with pilots striving to fly their planes to their potential then yeah, eny should be based on potential.  But with the vast majority of the arena flying the P51d, typhs, 190D9s in straight lines going 400+, then outrunning the opposition on the deck, how do you penalize this?  Imagine sector eny'ing + Eny based on plane popularity.  Hordes would be reduced to flying planes they have no chance in.  Fish out of water.  Maybe they'll learn how to walk.

[B4Buster]

Hordes would be reduced to flying planes they have no chance in.  Fish out of water.  Maybe they'll learn how to walk.

+1

[Krusty]

I think ENY should be rechecked on MANY MANY planes. For example, the Fw190A8 is 31 ENY but the A5 is 25 and the F8 is 20! I think this is a screwup as the A8 is MORE capable than the A5! Considering HTC modeled the F8 to match A8 specs, they theoretically SHOULD have the same ENY (if not A8 having less ENY because of heavier cannon options). The Ki84 has significant weaknesses (can't pass 450mph or loses ALL flight surfaces at once) as compared to the uber-flappen P-38s, yet it is 15 ENY and they are 20.

Speaking of 20 ENY, that's the same ENY for both 109K4 and 109G14, but the C205 was recently bumped up to 20 (from 30 or 25, I can't recall). In no way is this plane as capable as the 109K or G14, in terms of range, manuverability, climb rate, or top speed. It only got bumped up to 20 ENY because folks started several threads on the BBS about it and people started to think it's uber. Here's a tip: It's not, and that's one reason I like it.

Then there's the P-40E, 109F-4, 109G-2, and 109G-6 all sharing an ENY of 30. Last I recall the G-6 had a lower ENY. I don't recall when that changed. Regardless, saying that the F-4 and P-40E are comparable is one thing, but saying there's no combat difference between the 109s? The F-4 being the slowest, weakest armed, the G-2 being faster, better climbing, able to carry 3x as many guns or wing rockets, and the G-6 doing the same but with heavier MGs still yet? Those should be higher ranked by far. [higher ranked meaning lower ENY]

Here's a snapshot I took from the LWA moments ago, just to refresh everyone's memories:

Warning, it'll scroll for ya!



EDIT: the BBS downsized it. Raw link is here:
http://www.nakatomitower.com/ENYlist.jpg

[moot]

The A8 is definitely not lower on the ENY scale than the A5.

[Krusty]

I'm sayin'!! 

[Lusche]

Here's a snapshot I took from the LWA moments ago, just to refresh everyone's memories:

Warning, it'll scroll for ya!

(Image removed from quote.)

EDIT: the BBS downsized it. Raw link is here:
http://www.nakatomitower.com/ENYlist.jpg

A more accessible list (you can even copy & paste) can be found in the AH2 WIKI: 
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Aircraft%2C_Vehicles_and_Boats_in_Main_Arenas

[JunkyII]

Doesnt ENY also go on with how many of the planes were built and how long they flew in the war, or is this just a rumor i heard?

[Shuffler]

There are some folks that learn their plane and use it to its potential. Just because someone does not take time to learn their plane is no reason to change ENY.

ENY is moot when you fly low number teams anyway...........

[Sincraft]

I got into a discussion with some squaddies the other day about Eny and how it should work.  None of them agreed with me which is fine but I'm curious to get some others take on it.  For those who don't know, Eny is set up based on the aircraft's theoretical potential.
How it's set up:
Eny 5:
All Perked Aircraft, Spit16, Ta152, P47N, N1k2, La7
Eny 8:
P51D
Eny 10:
Typhoon, Spit8, HurriC, Bf110G
Eny 15:
F4U1A, F4UD, F6F5, Fw190D9,Ki84, Seafire
Eny 20:
109K4, 109G14, C205, F4F, FM2, 190F8, La5, P38J, P38L, P39Q, P47D40, P51B, Spit9, YakU
Etc...

Now, I've bolded the planes that I feel should have a lower eny number and Redded the planes that I feel should have a higher eny number.  Obviously this is open to discussion.

Anyways, the question I wanted to pose is, do you think an aircraft's eny should be based on its Potential or its Popularity?
I should also note that Potential is a subjective stat that HTC defines.

I'll just give one example from this list as to why I think eny should be defined by Popularity and not Potential.  The Fw190D9 is an eny 15 plane so it is typically always available unless there is a ridiculous imbalance.  It is also one of LW's most popular planes.  It's not hard to understand why.  Tons of 20mm cannon ammo and one of the fastest planes.  Now, the reason it is an eny 15 plane is probably based on the fact that it can't turn worth a darn when it gets slow.  It's lack of turn capability is a moot point though.  The vast majority of the 190D9 pilots only use it for B&Z so why does it matter if it can't turn.  They don't even try to turn it.  The dynamic of the MA is to cut and run and this is the perfect plane for that 'avoid the fight' mentality.

It seems to me plane popularity is based primarily on Speed and Gun Lethality for the vast majority of the players in the MA.  Take your cherry picks and get out of dodge.  Since no one is using their planes to their Potential, why is Eny based on this?  I'm sure Lusche has stats for the most popular planes in the LW handy somewhere which would also be nice to see.

So what do you think, Should Eny be based on Performance or Popularity?


P.S.
All perks should be Eny5.  Obviously the 262 won't have a high popularity due to it's cost.

 You obviously are a spit16 pilot.

[Anaxogoras]

You obviously are a spit16 pilot.

Oh dear.