P-51 Rockets

[Stoney]

Agreed on the short range bit with the 51 and 1000 pounders as well as that N Jug.

Best I can do on a D Jug.  4 rockets on the zero length rails and 3 500 pounders.  A fair amount of photos of Jugs with the rocket tubes totalling 6 rockets and 2 500 pounders but not three that I can find.
9th AF bird
(Image removed from quote.)

Very nice!

And Chalenge, according to the POH, the Mustang got pretty squirrely with the crowd-pleasers hung.  It was a very rare load out.

[Chalenge]

Like I said I thought it was scarce but since it rolled with it we should have it and yes our Mustang is a handful that heavy. I dont think you can say 'very rare' though... not with any certainty.

[Murdr]

ok, i was just curious. I didnt know how they would mount the other 4. Thanks.

Next paragraph in 15 Aug 45 printing: 

Four of the rockets are installed close to the bomb racks.  Consequently, when bombs or droppable tanks are attached to the racks, only six rockets can be carried, three on each wing.

[Karnak]

I wasnt trying to comment against the 1000 lbers but just trying to point out a possible reason for the scarcity of photos of a P51 with 1000 lbers and rockets.

I know.

I was adding my 2 cents.  I think the fact that the late war fighters carry so much ord really hurts the variety we see in the game.  Limit P-51s, F4Us and F6Fs to 500lbers and more variety would be out there.  I am tempted to say limit the Bf110G to 250kg bombs and the P-38 to 500lbers too.

[Stoney]

Like I said I thought it was scarce but since it rolled with it we should have it and yes our Mustang is a handful that heavy. I dont think you can say 'very rare' though... not with any certainty.

No, not with any certainty.  All I can say with certainty is that the POH specifically discourages the use of 1000 lb bombs due to the maneuvering limits placed on the aircraft.  Given that those guys out in the field pushed their aircraft to the edge, I'm sure it was done more than once.  The only pictures I've seen are Dan's from Iwo Jima.  On those missions they were taking off from one of the airfields on the island, climbing up, dropping the bombs and landing.  That's a very short mission radius that would allow them some flexibility loading the aircraft with fuel/ammo, perhaps.  It could be interesting to see what was going on at Saipan and Tinian as they had some fairly short-distance missions during those campaigns.

The 318th hated taking off heavy from Ie Shima.  The runway was 3000 feet long, with cliffs and the ocean at the end, and required a full run-up, 72" of MP and water injection to get airborne.  The Republic test-pilot that flew out there to "prove" to them the aircraft could handle such loads was killed on a takeoff trying to make his point.  IIRC, those heavy loads were dictated by the Marine General that was the joint air commander for the battle and not something the group liked to carry.

Ultimately, HTC gets to make the decisions and its a good piece of trivia to discuss from time to time.

[Ack-Ack]

I know.

I was adding my 2 cents.  I think the fact that the late war fighters carry so much ord really hurts the variety we see in the game.  Limit P-51s, F4Us and F6Fs to 500lbers and more variety would be out there.  I am tempted to say limit the Bf110G to 250kg bombs and the P-38 to 500lbers too.

While not used in every ground attack mission, P-38s did carry 1000lbers in level flight bombing runs.  They'd be led by a P-38 Droop Snoop pathfinder equipped with a Norden bombsight and would all drop when the pathfinder released its eggs.  How many missions were run like this?  Probably hundreds, if not more.


ack-ack

[Murdr]

If you look at the Lightning (for a different perspective) you can see that it was successful in the Pacific but I believe the German engineering was refined upon beyond the Japanese level and when PTO fighters came to the ETO it was obvious the Lightning was out of its element. If that isnt completely true it must be true at least that the Lightning was a par behind in effectiveness.

Obviously it had nothing to do with the decisions of the 8th AF who believed thier bombers did not need long range fighter escorts in the spring of 42 when P-38s were being delivered to MTO and PTO.  The following year they were well behind the curve in supply, maintainance, training, and formulating operational tactics for the P-38 specifically, and long range escorting in general.  The 38 had its teathing problems with operations under higher altitude/lower tempatures, however lack of pre-deployment training of ground and flight personel, poorly blended fuel, and command level tactical trial and error did not help matters one bit.  Meanwhile in MTO the 38's effectiveness was not in question against the same enemy.

[Ghosth]

I'm with Karnak, you want to hang 1k's on a fighter you should have to pay for them.

[Lusche]

<- really hoping for a perked ordinance/weapons system.

[TheZohan]

i heard they also mounte M-10 rockets tubes


found this too

Wings
6: 0.5" MG4
6: 12.7 mm Browning MG1,2
6: 12.7 mm MG3 

Bombs
2: 500 lb1, 2: 1,000 lb2,3, 2,000 lb4
2: 227 kg1, 2: 454 kg2,3, 907 kg4 
OR   

Rockets
8: 75 mm1
6: 5"2,3,4
6: 127 mm2,3,4

note the 10 HVAR rockets not mentioned



Sources:

1 Aircraft of WWII, General Editor: Jim Winchester, 2004
2 Fighting Aircraft of World War II, Editor: Karen Leverington, 1995
3 The Encyclopedia of Weapons of World War II, General Editor Chris Bishop, 1998
4 Aircraft of WWII, Stewart Wilson, 1998

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

Same here

anything 500 and over should be perked.


please Ht bring on that good ol' perk ord system!

[Murdr]

Just so everyone knows, the P-51D pilots training manual is posted on its AHWiki page.  A number of other manuals are also posted on AHWiki plane pages for US and UK aircraft...more as I get to them.

[Spikes]

<- really hoping for a perked ordinance/weapons system.

+1.
I personally hate the suicide jabos. I can't wait for a perked ord system. This will require more wingman tactics to take down strats at bases and such. You would need a couple planes off a CV to take down the VH, etc.

[Ack-Ack]

Perking ordnance won't get rid of the suicide jabos or cut down on the tactic. 


ack-ack

[Spikes]

Perking ordnance won't get rid of the suicide jabos or cut down on the tactic. 


ack-ack

It may make them think twice before diving in.

By this perked ord, this means you take up the 1K's and when they are dropped, perks are subtracted? Or when you die, they are?