P-47N

[MjTalon]

First of all at 20K you should eat F4U's for lunch.  Even a short nose low turn will give you enough speed to out zoom climb him.  These alts really work to the N's advantage.

How to get rid of a P-51 on your six from 13K?  Really?  Drop the nose.  There's no way anything will stay with you.  I dove through 10-15 cons to kill a goon on the deck in the middle of them for my last kill in the D11 that night before I had to bug out for ammo.  I wasn't the least bit worried that one of them would get guns on me even though they were all turning for me, some from an alt advantage.  The N does that even better.

Not the -4. That thing is unbeatable at 20k with an experienced stick behind it.

[skribetm]

Not the -4. That thing is unbeatable at 20k with an experienced stick behind it.

the f4u-4 would have caught my tail with that move. it's got unbelievable zoom/climb!

[Anaxogoras]

There's no reason to expect a P-47 to out-zoom an F4U-1A, even.   It's a big myth that the heavier the aircraft, the better it zoom-climbs in the world of AH.  When I did a few tests the SpitXVI outzoomed the P-47D, F4U-1A, and P-38L.

[BnZs]

There's no reason to expect a P-47 to out-zoom an F4U-1A, even.   It's a big myth that the heavier the aircraft, the better it zoom-climbs in the world of AH.  When I did a few tests the SpitXVI outzoomed the P-47D, F4U-1A, and P-38L.

Yeah...even if we take thrust/weight ratio out of it by killing the engines, it is mass/drag ratio, not absolute mass.

That said, I think a 50% P-47N or similarly light D-40 have a comparable climb rate to the F4U with the WEP running, so there is no reason to totally avoid fighting the unperked hog in the vertical if you have abit of E on him.

[Stoney]

can you offer a tip how to get rid of a mustang on my six when im below 13,000 ft? should i start praying to jesus that he overshoot?

In the P-47, if you have 7,000 AGL (above ground level) feet of altitude, you are mere seconds away from 500 mph.  Get the nose over at about a 30-45 degree angle of dive (eyeball approximation here), WEP, and take her all the way to the deck.  Level out at tree top and you should see around 500 mph on the airspeed indicator, and it will take you a minute or so before you decelerate below 400 mph.  Unless that Pony has a lot of smash on you, you should be able to stay out front for a bit.  Ultimately, he will catch you, but you can easily outturn him, once you get away from the crowd.  I generally try not to let them get any closer than 600-800 yards as I maneuver back into them.

[skribetm]

In the P-47, if you have 7,000 AGL (above ground level) feet of altitude, you are mere seconds away from 500 mph.  Get the nose over at about a 30-45 degree angle of dive (eyeball approximation here), WEP, and take her all the way to the deck.  Level out at tree top and you should see around 500 mph on the airspeed indicator, and it will take you a minute or so before you decelerate below 400 mph.  Unless that Pony has a lot of smash on you, you should be able to stay out front for a bit.  Ultimately, he will catch you, but you can easily outturn him, once you get away from the crowd.  I generally try not to let them get any closer than 600-800 yards as I maneuver back into them.

i'm taking notes!      thank you!

[BaldEagl]

Not the -4. That thing is unbeatable at 20k with an experienced stick behind it.

Oops... I didn't see where he specified the 4 Hog.  In fact, I still don't.

I generally assume when someone's talking about fighting a family of planes they aren't taking about the perk rides unless they specifically say so.

[BnZs]

Every Jug variant has a tighter radius of turn than the Pony with flap usage, as well as a better roll rate. A smart Pony will E-fight a Jug, rather than accepting a scissors.

[MjTalon]

Every Jug variant has a tighter radius of turn than the Pony with flap usage, as well as a better roll rate. A smart Pony will E-fight a Jug, rather than accepting a scissors.

And what is the Average intelligent level of 75% of the P51s you encounter in the MA? 

[mtnman]

tec,

i really am interested in defensive maneuvers where a F4U or a 51B/D is behind the 47N. at deck alt vs. the F4U, i burn as much wep as i can to extend(run away, really lol). when wep runs out and F4U is still on my 6, i know im going to be in for a fight since it will eventually catch up to me if i dont have any more wep. the 51D i can sort of fight off with a better chance if it catches up with me. but i have a hard time with F4U's mostly.

i remember once chappy was running away in a 47 and i caught up with him(me in a corsair) needless to say i got spanked in 3 moves i think.

First of all, you need to keep them from getting behind you.  As simple and smart-azzed as that may sound, SA (Situational Awareness) is your number one defense against every plane and every pilot in AH.  Once you have the required level of SA down, all you need to do to keep them from being on your six is to turn.  He'll then be on your side, or in front of you...  If he gets close enough to you that you can't do that, it means you've failed in the first requirement (SA).  The best defense is always going to be a good offense.  SA doesn't just mean knowing where everyone is- it means knowing their capabilities at any moment as well.  Fighting a high/fast F4U/P51 is not like fighting a low/slow F4U/P51.  A fast one behind you isn't like a slow one behind you...

Burning WEP running away is a waste too.  If you're going to be caught anyway, it's better to be caught with some advantages left.  The first is WEP.  If you're in for a tough fight, doing it without WEP isn't going to make things any easier.  I'd personally extend without WEP, if I knew/suspected that burning it wasn't going to work anyway.  And I'd be hoping that he was burning his chasing me.  That way when we fight hopefully he's the one that does it WEP-less.  Also, reverse back into him before he closes too tightly with you.  If you're gonna get caught, don't let him catch up inside of 1.5 or so.  Turn back and show him something more dangerous than your tail.  I'm not saying to HO, but do a low yo-yo back into/under him, and try to merge nose-up with him with some speed.  If a fight is imminent, I'd be reversing at closer to D2.0...  Don't let him catch you and force to to dodge, turn, or whatever.  That's letting him dictate the terms of the fight.  Reverse when you're ready, not when you have to...  When it comes to extending, I prefer to do it at an angle perpendicular to the main traffic direction.  I do that to draw my opponent out where he won't easily find help, and no friendlies are likely to disturb me.  Depending on your goals, it may be better to extend toward help, etc- it seldom goes well if you extend towards more bad guys...  What may look like running when I'm doing it may really be me looking for some privacy.  In that case, I may extend slightly nose down, WEP off, so I have enough speed/time to get out of icon range of others.  It's also helpful to have the guy behind me going as fast as he can when it comes to many of the ways I fight.

As far as specific P47 vs. F4U/P51 manuevers- there aren't any.  All planes are using the same manuevers.  They just do them better at different speeds, sizes, variations, etc, and timimg is the real key.  Explaining them on the BBS is not the best way to handle it either.  I'd recommend doing some 1 on 1 training with a trainer in the TA.  I'd wager your making some very basic mistakes, that aren't "plane" or "plane vs. plane" dependant.  When it comes to beating a specific plane, it's really more about beating a specific pilot.  IMO, the F4U is the best plane in the game.  I can beat any plane in the game with it.  And any of them can be used to beat my F4U if the pilot can beat me...

[skribetm]

@mtnman

excellent pointers sir. thank you. i've flown the f4u-1a and p-47n in game most of the time, and i come out much better in the corsair. it stall fights/turns almost like a zero and the zoom climb really gets me out of trouble most of the time. it is indeed an excellent, if not the best plane in the game. if there was an argument between an f4u-1a and p51-d, i'd still pick the corsair for its ruggedness, turn, roll, and slow stall speed advantage over the mustang.

having said that, there's just something in this jug that keeps me coming back. maybe i just like my plane and women fat.. lol!

[Wolfala]

Hard to believe I missed this thread. I think you guys covered all the bases, without perhaps mentioning engine management.

I.e. Takeoff at 2700 rpm, max manifold pressure - wep to altitude.
Cruise altitude, RPM 2400, max manifold. Gives you pretty damn close to the same TAS as 2700 with a lot less fuel burn.
Long range go far at 2000 RPM still trues you out over 300 TAS. Burns a lot less gas. And oh yea - engine cools down from the climb in time to arrive on station with plenty of juice.

Inside guns to 475 - outside to 400. Usual stuff, and NO tracers. Why advertise you are shooting the other guy when he's dead anyway if he's tapped.

[bozon]

As far as specific P47 vs. F4U/P51 manuevers- there aren't any.  All planes are using the same manuevers.  They just do them better at different speeds, sizes, variations, etc, and timimg is the real key.  Explaining them on the BBS is not the best way to handle it either.  I'd recommend doing some 1 on 1 training with a trainer in the TA.  I'd wager your making some very basic mistakes, that aren't "plane" or "plane vs. plane" dependant.  When it comes to beating a specific plane, it's really more about beating a specific pilot.  IMO, the F4U is the best plane in the game.  I can beat any plane in the game with it.  And any of them can be used to beat my F4U if the pilot can beat me...

Read it again and memorize. There are very few occasions where one plane is so much better than another in a specific maneuver that you have a "do this" solution. In most cases it comes down to pilot against pilot.

Minute differences between planes start to show in clean conditions such a duels, when both pilots are skilled enough to use the plane to its full potential. In the MA (or real life), conditions are rarely like that (from current fuel load to initial conditions). In a massive furball, plane performance is almost irrelevant and SA is by far the dominant factor in success. WWII pilots were happy to trade a few mph in top speed and some lateral stability for a bubble canopy (P47, P51 examples).

[skribetm]

wow wolflala!

nice picture! did you submit that to the contest? that looks pure pwnage! i love it!

i'm currently using weazely's picture, see this.

anyway i can use yours in a 1680x1050 format?

[Steve]

How to get rid of a P-51 on your six from 13K?  Really?  Drop the nose. 

Bang you're dead.